Learn Australian English in this interview episode of Aussie English where I chat with Milene Sales about teaching English in Australia.

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G'day you mob. Welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I have a special interview with guest Milene Sales. Now, Milene is an English teacher, but she is originally from Brazil. And we got in contact probably, I don't know, six months or so ago via Instagram. And when we started chatting, I asked if she'd like to come on to the podcast to talk about her experiences learning English in Brazil, becoming an English teacher in Australia, because it can be done. And I'm sure many of you guys listening to the podcast. Obviously, you're trying to improve your English, but you may also be interested in teaching English, you know, or maybe you didn't even know that was a possibility. But I've met a few of you guys now who have ended up full time English teachers in countries like Australia. So that is one way that you can end up moving to places like Australia, America and Britain. Anyway, today's interview is a really interesting one. Milene was a pleasure to have on the podcast. We did kind of just dive straight into it. So I was going to wait and do a proper intro when I had her there on Skype, but she told a really interesting story about the pronunciation of her name that I thought... will just get straight into the episode, including that story. So thank you so much, Milene, and sorry again that I had to ask. I always ask how to pronounce people's names before I get into the podcast, because with my Australian background I tend to get foreign name pronunciation wrong more often than not. Anyway, let's get into the podcast guys. And it's Milene, right? Like if I were to say that with an Australian accent or do I need to...

It's so funny. When I go to cafes and, you know, like they ask your name to give you your coffee because they want to be all customer oriented. So what's your name? And I say Milene, that's how I pronounce it in Portuguese.

Yeah.

And they don't understand it. And they spell it in a very funny way. So or they call me something, and then I have a nickname. So when I go to cafes, I say, my name is Mel. And because it's the closest name in English to Milene. But that's okay. Yeah, I got used to "Ma-leen", "My-lene," "Melanie" Eventually.

I don't know how people do it. We went to have a check up the other day for Noah and we had to have his hips looked at. So I think they have to get checked and just make sure their legs are growing at the same rate. So we went to the doctor and he comes out and my surname is Smissen. Right. So if I were to type that it's S M I S S E N. Right. And so you've got the double S's which show that the "I" is a short vowel. Right. It's not an "ai" sound, it's an "ih". And so... but every single time someone who doesn't know how to pronounce my name comes out, the doctor comes out and he's like "Noah Smaison?" I'm like, how do people get this? Because if it was "Smitten" or something like with 2 T's, you would know. Right. And so yeah, people always screw that up. So I feel... And that's native speakers of my language. Right. And then I think we'll leave that part in the podcast. It's just we've already begun. We've already begun. So.

I hope he's going to edit it because, you know, I might just say something silly.

No way. I'm not I'm not going to go over it that heavily. I think people enjoy... people enjoy the authentic, you know, bits and pieces. They don't want it too polished right. It's kind of like you feel it's a bit...

I'm a perfectionist. "Oh my god!" I'm like, oh!

So how did you end up in Australia, in Sydney, teaching English? Tell us your story.

I came here first time in 2009 for a teacher's course for just two months, and I thought it was too short and because I'd loved the city and I loved the experience I had here that time. So yeah, when I went back to Brazil, I continued teaching English and I thought I might go back and stay there for a bit longer. But until I met my husband, I couldn't do that because I didn't have the courage, I didn't have the money. And don't I know, I think I needed some support somehow. And then I met him and a year later, we came here because he gave me all of the support I needed. He bought the crazy idea that he had to go to a foreign country whose language he didn't even speak at that time. and then embark on this adventure. So, yeah, that's how I came to Australia. So the first time was 2009 for a teacher's course and then a year when we got here in 2015. Yeah. It was my second time here and his first time here. I started working as a nanny, but I had already done my CELTA course back in Brazil because I knew that I would end up teaching English. I might have the chance to teach English to foreign students. And six months later, I got the job as I got a job as an English teacher. I'm a bit nervous. Sorry, my...

Relax, relax. Don't worry. Don't worry. No one's listening currently, right? They listen later on. So it's all good.

Yeah.

How did you decide that? So you're obviously like... if we go before 2009 and you were in Brazil, obviously, were you already speaking English as well as you do now and everything like that in Brazil? Like, how did you get to that level?

I studied by myself.

You're an animal.

It's crazy. Yeah, yeah,.

Man. Tell us the secrets there, then. Because I get that. I mean, not to toot my own horn. You know, you've seen my Portuguese. So it's kind of like good enough to get by. But I've never been to Brazil. How did you do that by yourself in Brazil to get your English to such a level? Because I'm sure there are a lot of people listening from back home in their home countries who haven't yet left and are wanting to work on their English. What does it take? What did you do to get your English to such a good level?

It takes a lot of studying. Obviously a lot of time and dedication... dedication and passion, I'd say... because my dream when I was young was to speak English fluently, but I had no one to talk to, to practice with. I didn't have access to a lot of material at the time. We didn't have Internet. So it was really, really hard. I remember going to English schools just to ask for information such as course prices or days of classes, et cetera, et cetera. And at that time, they had those take one leaflets with lyrics to songs which were on the radio at the moment and I'd just go in, ask for information just to take one of those leaflets and I'd take them home and study. And then, yeah, just copy the lyrics, literally copy in a mirror and practise the lyrics over and over again until I could sing the song perfectly. So that's how I started.

Far out. So you're one of those who really enjoy using music as a way of learning languages?

Yeah. There's a course now in our school called English Through Music that I created. And yeah, because that's how I learnt English. And that's something I'm also passionate about music.

Why do you think that's so? Like there's a... as a story, I know a girl from Colombia and we met because she was interested in English teaching and she'd sent me a few emails a few years ago. And when I spoke to her, I was like, you don't have an accent. You've got an American accent. What the... like, what the fuck dude? Are you American? And she's like, I've never left Colombia. And I was just like, what? And she was a musician. She was a singer. And she's just been studying since she was like nine years old, watching TV and, you know, practicing the words and everything. And I was like, there must be something to music and especially in pronunciation. Did you find that that really helped you get your head around English pronunciation and everything.

Now that you mentioned that, I think so. I think if you're a musical person, maybe I don't know if you have a knack for music. If you if you have a sense of rhythm or something like that, it might help you. I know it's maybe very accurate listening skills or I don't know what that is, to be honest, but. Well, since I started doing... Since I was very young, I also... I didn't think much about what people would think about my pronunciation. So I just... You know, because nowadays, if my brother, for example, listens to me speaking English, he'll make fun of me because he will say I sound funny.

So you mean he'll make fun of you in Portuguese, though? Not in English or..?

Yeah, obviously, because he can't speak English.

But it's funny isn't because it's like the other side. I remember when I was first learning Portuguese, I kind of there was something inside of me. I think the English side of me that refused to say things like 'não' and 'também' and saying those nasal vowels because it felt embarrassing because if I was with other English speakers and you make those sounds of like 'ão' and 'em', they'd be like, whoa, what the hell?

You do it so well! I'm so impressed!

And so, I mean I practiced so much to get that right. But it was funny that it was so embarrassing originally. But now it almost got to the point where if I speak Portuguese, I don't do it correctly. I feel embarrassed, especially around other Portuguese speakers. So it's funny how it comes full circle, right?

Yeah, that's it. And I was talking to a student of mine, actually an ex student who came to visit me this week. He's now living in Melbourne. He studied at Langports last year, I guess. I remember his pronunciation, his level of English, what was already advanced. And then after a year, he came back and visited me. And we only spoke in English, obviously, because he went to school and we can't speak any other language but English at school. Yeah. And I was so impressed to see how much him he progressed with his pronunciation. And he was telling me, I said, Martheus, It's incredible how much you've progressed in this year or so. And your pronunciation is simply outstanding. And he was like, oh, you know, some people, especially Brazilians, some people make fun of me. They think I'm posh. They think I sound snobbish. And he said, But I don't care. I was like. And that's why we stand out. Sorry. We're being like a bit... But we did just forget about other people's judgements. and that's how they sound. So if you want to speak like native speakers, we should imitate them. And it works.

Well, that's it. I realised with Portuguese that if you don't feel like you're... you know, if it doesn't feel strange, you're probably nowhere near the correct pronunciation. Right. Like, if you if you if you feel like you're saying things that really you're doing it, you're nailing it, it's all easy. You're probably not doing it right. So what was the trick for people like you and for him with pronunciation? What do people who end up with a really good accent do? Is there a certain set of skills that they have or things they do?

Going back to music, he's the same as me. He loves music. And he said it's something to do with music in his vocational course here in Australia. So again, music may be it has to do with the way you process sounds. I don't know. I have never studied about it, but I would say that there must be some connection there. Look, I just imitate people. I'm not shy to just copy what people say and how people say things.

Is it an ongoing thing, too? Because I quite often tell my students that you wouldn't go to the gym once and think, "yeah, fucking nailed it," you know, "fit for the rest of my life!" But. Exactly. And I mean, you can talk to that, you're a bit of a gym buff, but it's the same with pronunciation, right. It's an ongoing thing, especially in a foreign language. Like even now, I keep learning things after... I mean, and I'm sure it's probably the same for you. After years of learning Portuguese for me, every now and then, I like the pronouns 'ela' and 'ele'. I didn't realise that the E at the front of those is different. It's a different vowel sound, right? And it blew my mind! it blew my mind when I figured that out and I was like, what the hell? And that was years after... You never knew that?

No!

So things like that, you know, like it's an ongoing process where it's almost like you're... you can slowly see better and better and better, but it takes years and years and years. Right. So was it the same for English and you? Did you have those?

I think I might... Well firstly I might know more about pronunciation in English than I know about the pronunciation in my own language, because I just speak Portuguese, I don't reason things in my mind when I speak my language. But yeah, you're right! Is that "ela/ele" That's true.

Well, English. The funny thing is, when I was learning Portuguese, I remember 'muito', right? With the word "muito". There's no 'N' in there. But it sounds like there is when you say it. And I remember raging up at one of my Brazilian instructors and being like, why the hell is it pronounced this way when there's no... the letter's missing in the spelling of the word! And he's just like English. Because there's so much... I'm like, right, yeah. Every second word in English has like some different pronunciation rule. So how did you get around that? What was that? Was there a trick to learning? You know, correct pronunciation and spelling because there's almost like a juxtaposition. There's a there's a difference between what you read and what you should say. Right. And you have to kind of get over that to improve your pronunciation as a student. Quite often. Is there a trick to it or is it just time in the gym?

Yeah. No, I had study that as a teacher. I... There is a course, a class actually. We call it a course. But students don't do it for ten weeks. they might if they want, but they don't do it for ten weeks. There's a class and like what's called "Pronunciation and Conversation." And we do teach pronunciation, like pure pronunciation. And we have because I taught that class for a long time. I had to study a lot because I must confess, I didn't know about rules. I didn't know the rules for pronunciation. I didn't even know... I was not even aware that there were rules for pronunciation.

I didn't know either. Before I was doing Aussie English and making some of the content that I do. I had no idea with a lot of this stuff. I had look it up and had to buy like a whole bunch of books and jump in there because I could do it without thinking about it. Like with you in Portuguese. But yeah, it's crazy isn't it.

Yeah. And then I had to study before teaching. So yeah that was one of the things that helped helps me polish up my pronunciation. But also as I said, copying, being very attentive to the way native speakers speak. How they pronounce different words or like here in Australia, I used to be a nanny to a British family and I noticed how they pronounced the words and I would copy them. But oftentimes I would realise that, oh, the way they pronounce this word is different to the way I used to pronounce that word. So I get confused. And then when I heard all Australians pronouncing the same word, I was like, Oh, my God. I have to choose one! It bugs your brain.

I was wondering that because as soon as you started talking, I'm like, she has a British accent. It's not Australian.

I don't have an identity in English.

And no, there is nothing wrong with that. It's awesome.

Oh, no, no, it's horrible. I feel like I need to have an identity. Like a... Seriously! Yeah. Because I know who I am. I mean, I know myself in Portuguese and I know, for example, I wouldn't pronounce the word hot in Portuguese, 'coração' with an accent from the northeast. It's... where is Kel from?

Maranhão.

Maranhão. So I guess she would say "coração."

Yeah, I think she'd say "coração."

Yeah. I would never pronounce it this way. I would say 'coracão', because I'm from São Paulo. I'm Paulista. You know, I don't know. And these things. Your pronunciation shows people where you're from. It's your identity. I studied bilingualism at post-graduation and oh, my God, it's so deep. And I feel... I don't know how to explain how I feel. I just I just feel lost. And oftentimes people will ask me, are you British? Are you Aussie? And I'm like, no, I'm Brazilian. After a whole week of classes, a student found out that I was Brazilian and he was... How come? I didn't pick that up! It was like... I feel I don't have an identity.

But it's tough, isn't it?

Because it's almost like first world problems where if you had a really thick Brazilian accent, you'd be like, God damn it, I just want to get rid of this accent and not have this accent. Exactly. But now that you don't have it, you like God dammit, I just wanted a... You know, an Australian personality. So what about slang? Like, do you think a big part of it might not necessarily be accent, but that you have you picked up certain ways, certain things that Australians say that you can sort of accentuate. Because one of those things, again, where I keep rabbiting on about Portuguese, but that's my sort of example. Kel is always saying stuff to me at home that is very north east Brazil. So, I'll say things like, oh, 'eita' or 'éguas' or 'erra diaxo'. And so, these are like little exclamations, right? So if she gets surprised she'll be like oh 'éguas', but it's not said by the rest of Brazil. And so I feel like now she'll be like I'm making you into a maranhense. I'm turning you into a North-easterner, because if you go to Brazil, you'll be saying all these little things and everyone's going to be like "What?" She bought a T-shirt for Noah that just has 'éguas' on the front of it, for my son.

I never heard that before.

Really? Far out. Yeah, she's got heaps of them. But did you pick up things like that in Australia? Did you..? Are there loads of things that you started saying that helped you fit in, especially with the amount of slang that we have?

I do. I do say things like "servo," "garbo," "ciggy," "prezzy," "crizzy," "fair dinkum." What else do I say? "G'day." I do use some, but not a lot of them. like just these... "Chocky bikkie." Just these short words. Yeah, yeah. But in terms of idioms. Not many to be honest.

What you say students who come to you and say... because I've had a few from Columbia, as a good example where they were... I think they have very sort of a stratified society where there's different classes. Right. There's the guys at the top and the guys at the bottom. And I think I met some people who were like, I don't want to use slang because that's something that, you know, people from the lower class will do. And I don't want to appear like that. Should I learn slang in Australia? And I'm like, well, we're kind of homogenised. It's just one class. So you'll hear the prime minister using slang, you'll hear, you know, garbos using slang. Everyone uses slang. Everyone tries to just speak the same way. So what sort of advice do you have for students who say, you know, should I learn slang and colloquialisms in Australian English?

If you want to fit in: Yes. Because that's how I feel. Yeah. I feel that I belong to the group because I do the same as they do. So, yeah, totally. And we do have Aussie English classes. They're at school too. In school and we try to incorporate it into their... The speaking activities we do in class and I do encourage them... at least like these little things, or at least we try to raise their awareness to the fact that look, this exists. If you want to understand English or Aussie English better, you should learn the slang that they use. You should try to practise. You should try and watch more TV and listen to Aussie English podcast and listen to the radio. And you see people using that. And then maybe if they have this kind of prejudice, yeah, they would see that there's nothing wrong with using slang and it doesn't make them sound poor, rich or educated, non-educated. Here in Australia it's not the same.

Yeah. It's pretty funny and I'm always saying to them just use it. Not necessarily like every other word, you know, using slang, but use those common ones like "arvo," "barbie," "g'day," "how's it going?" you know, because it makes me feel at ease. If you were to greet me in the street and be like, "hey Pete," you know "How's it going, mate?" I'd be like, oh yeah, he knows what's up. Instead of, you know, if you just said "how do you do?" that would instantly make me feel uncomfortable because I'd be like, oh, this is formal. So did you experience much culture shock when you came to Australia? Were there big things that were different here from Brazil?

House cleaning is a big issue to me. The cleaning of environments in general. Yes, because we are kind of OCD in Brazil. Kel is like that.

Yeah.

If I go out, I have like three at least three different types of wipes in my bag.

Really?

Yes. Yes. I wipe everything everywhere. Hands, surfaces, even at school. When I teach, first thing I do is to clean the desktop on the computer I'm going to use. So the standard... Yeah, the standard of cleanliness here is a different level. Yes.

Why do you why do you think that is? Why is Brazil so anal about cleanliness?

Why? I don't know why, but I can see you are a lot more laid back than us. Like when it comes to cleaning, because you have the beach. So I just go down the road and I'm at the beach. So why would I spend the whole Saturday cleaning my house if I can go and enjoy the day? So I kind of understand, you know, but yeah. For example, in São Paulo, I think we don't have better things to do. So we clean the house!

I don't know. I don't know why!

I don't know. I don't know why. But you can take Milene out of Brazil, but you don't take Brazil out of Milene. So my "Brazilianness" shines when it comes to things like that. So that was the first thing. Everywhere when I first got here... Something that really shocked me was how dusty all the surfaces everywhere were. I was like, oh my God. No one dusts the places here. No one wipes the surfaces. How come? Doesn't it annoy them? And that annoys me a lot.

And now I'll spend the rest of the day analysing my house and being like, oh my God, what would Milene think? There's going to be crap everywhere that I need to clean! Far out.

So that was the first thing. And because I think, yeah, I'm a Virgo too. I don't know if you believe in Star Signs. So that's something that... that's one of the most prominent features of my personality, being Virgo. I'm extremely, like, exaggeratedly organised and clean. Yeah, because of my personality, too. And yes, your eating habits.

Mine? Australian. I'm kidding. That's it. That was the culture shock? You came to Australia and saw me eating on Instagram or something. You were like "Jesus!"

It's Vegemite for breakfast! No Australian eating habits, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How do they differ from Brazil? Because you guys are messed up. You have cheese in sushi. I mean, what's up with that?

Cheese and sushi? You mean 'catupiry'?

Yeah. And tomato sauce on pizza. What's up with that?

No! Not in Sao Paulo! our Italian background in Sao Paulo is quite strong, so we well... at least the people I know we don't put tomato sauce on pizza.

Kel does that incessantly. That's the only time she has tomato sauce. I'm always like, what is wrong with you? It already has tomato sauce on it!

It's actually tomato paste, not tomato sauce. But I heard that in Rio and in other parts of Brazil, people do that. But in Sao Paulo, I don't think we do that. Not the people I know. I am speaking for myself and the people I know. But yeah, it's not very common.

And what I heard the other day that blew my mind, because I'm yet to go to Brazil, is the sewage system here in Australia is apparently really good. And that in Brazil you guys don't put toilet paper in the toilet.

Yeah.

I was like, what? And it's... I mean, you can probably tell us why exactly. But is it the systems that get blocked up more easily in Brazil than they do here in Australia or something?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

That's... I feel like I'm going to go to Kel's house and just ruin their houses without thinking about it because I'll block the pipes up.

Yeah. Yeah. So in this regard I think we are that far behind. Yeah. It's disgusting. And when I went to Brazil like two years ago, when I went back to Brazil to visit my family, I kept throwing toilet paper in! I kept forgetting that it was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was not what I was supposed to do, you know. Yeah. And then I felt disgusting. I felt like, oh, my God, I have to do that! No! It's horrifying! And that's reverse cultural shock.

Yeah. Yeah. When you go back. Were there other things like that, too. Did you... Did you go back home and you were like, oh my God, I had no idea. You see Brazil through the lens of Australia?

Yes. Having to dress up to go to the mall is something... Like it's a must in Brazil. You got the mall, at least in Sao Paulo. Because I always say in Sao Paulo... Brazil is huge and we are all different. Everywhere you go. Yeah. But in my neighbourhood, everybody would dress up to go to the mall. And here you see people like... you see people going straight from the beach to the mall in a swimsuit or barefoot or with their hair wet. Seriously, I like the Aussie laid-backness. I don't know if it's...

Sure! Kel saw someone the other day at the supermarket without shoes on. And I was like... She was like, what the hell? Is he homeless? And I'm like "Kel, it's like a twelve year old kid." Like, he just doesn't care. You know, it's hot. He doesn't have thongs... I don't know. He's just decided he'd want to wear thongs. I'm I do that sometimes. And she's like, "What!?! Never. Never." You know, like, we think it's disgusting because we think that the street is dirty.

Oh it is. But, you know, no one's got time for shoes.

I don't know... I don't know how you don't get the soles of your feet burnt because it's so hot!

Yeah. On the road... Well you don't walk across the bitumen, you know, you don't sit there for hours.

I go to Manly and I see heaps of people walking barefoot in the street. I'm like, oh, my God! How are your feet not burning?

Switching gears on to students in Australia, taking classes. So you're teaching at Langports? Tell us a bit about that first. How do you find that?

Teaching or Langports?

Well both. Tell us the story. How did you end up at Langports and what's it like teaching a foreign language?

Well Langports is like my second house. Yeah. So as I told you, after six months I got here, I got this job at Langports and I've been there ever since. And I've taught all of the levels. I've done a little bit of everything, I guess. Yeah, by now. So I've done some teaching. And there was a time where I had to renew my visa, had to go to Thailand, and then I had to stay away for two months. And when I got back, they didn't have a teaching position for me anymore. And I had to do reception. And then, well, lately, because I've taught all of the levels, I was like, what else to do after all of the levels? Nothing's new to me anymore. There's no novelty here for me anymore. And then I started training with the director of studies. So I was doing some assistant director of study duties. And yeah, I also clean all of the places to... Yeah, everything. So I literally do a little bit of everything. And yeah, it's my second house. I just love that school. All of my co-workers. Everyone is very supportive. It's like a family there. And the students, they are absolutely amazing. I remember getting a bit tired of teaching adults in Brazil because they would complain, oh, it's difficult. They would always make a thousand excuses to justify why they didn't do homework, why they didn't practise pronunciation at home, why they didn't do X, Y, Z, and that just made me... I had such a negative vibe from those students and then I just got tired of that. And so went on to teaching kids, which is completely... they had a smile every day and I love kids. And yeah, I graduated in education, so I'm originally a preschool elementary school teacher. So I started doing that in English and then, yeah, that was great. So I completely changed the environment I was in and then... So I remember back in the day not wanting to teach adults anymore. And then when I came here. Yeah. I got this job and I teach adults and I was like, oh again, ugh... I was afraid of what I was going to encounter. But students who come here, they really want to study it, they come here with a different mindset and they come here for just a short period of time. So some of them will complain because they have to work after school and they will go to bed late and they will go off and come to you on the next day and say, "hello, teacher. Sorry I left my job... I left work at," let's say midnight, because they work at restaurants. They do all sorts of jobs and they do events, functions. "I left..." I'm stammering, sorry, "I left work after midnight and I couldn't do my homework," blah, blah, blah. But it will be, you know, on rare occasions. They have a very positive attitude here. So it kind of feeds me back. So I'm generally always very motivated to teach them because I have this energy, this positive attitude. I get this positive vibe from them. And yeah, it's always new. I always do it because I hear differently from Brazil. You have different students every week. Yeah. And then Langports has this different system called UFO: Use, Focus and Options, where the teacher teaches two hours of general English in the morning. So you have your group, Intermediate, Elementary, Advanced. And then you have the focus class in the middle of the day for one hour. And the focus class is the skills classes. Writing, reading, listening and speaking. Each skill on a different day. And then for that hour you have a different group of students. So you'll teach a group of students for two hours in the morning and then another group of students for another hour.

Yes. I think that would make sense, right, because you would probably get... if this student has the same teacher for the entire day and they're studying, you know, the same thing for the entire day. You can imagine that they're going to just shut off pretty quickly. Right. But if you keep sort of adding novelty by changing the subject, changing the environment, the teacher, then they're going to stay more engaged, I imagine.

Yeah, I think that's the rationale behind it. And also, they're ideas that students are not in the same level for their skills. So the separate that you separate the students into their level of listening, reading, writing, speaking. So two students might be together in their general English class, but they might go to different classes for their listening class. Because they are in different levels. So that is another reason why they have these different classes. And then after lunch they have a class called Options, which means students can choose the class they want to attend. They can choose pronunciation if they think they need to... pronunciation and conversation if they need to develop their pronunciation skills or their speaking skills. If they feel that they need more grammar, they can do grammar; elementary, intermediate or advanced. They also can do business. IELTS Cambridge skills. What else? Vocabulary. Elementary, intermediate and advanced.

So how does it work exactly? Do they enrol in the school and then they select different classes for their own sort of curriculum? Or are they given one?

So on the first day, which is usually Monday, they are tested and based on their results, the director and the assistant director of studies both sit together and they place the students in the level they should be in according to their score. Basically, yeah. So initially it's the director of studies and the assistant, both put the students in a certain Option Class, but later on they can change.

Brilliant. And so what does a successful student look like? If you could describe, you know, the students who come to Langports or any other English school and they get the most out of it? Do they have a certain set of skills or behaviours or habits that that you see time and time again that lead to, you know, success?

Number one, if you come to a foreign country to learn a foreign language, you should practice the foreign language. You come to study and you came here to study. Well, what happens is a lot of students tend to mingle with people from the same country, the same country they were from. This is very negative. So the first thing would be mingle with students from other countries because...

That's something I get told quite often. They'll be like, how do I meet other Australians? You know, when I've just arrived, then I'll say, you don't have to meet other Australians. You just have to meet anyone who doesn't speak your native language as their native language. Right. Where the common language is English.

Yeah. That's the first thing. So try to speak to people who don't speak the same language as you. And then you'll be forced to speak English. Yeah. That's a good habits that a great student would have. What else? Homework. I know it's so cliche. Yeah. Students may hate when teachers say that, but like from experience I can say I learned English almost all by myself. Later on I went to school and I studied English in a language school. But most of what I know I learned by myself. So how did I do that? Literally sitting at my desk and studying.

Giving yourself homework every single day.

Yeah. Yeah. Grammar, pronunciation, reading. I remember I didn't have Internet growing up. So when I found a magazine in English, when someone gave me... even if it was a known magazine in English, I would devour that. I was like, oh my God, this is so precious! Regardless of the subject, just because that was English, I was like, oh, my God, that there must be a thousand words I don't know here. And then I want to let all of them. So this eagerness is also important. You have to be eager. You have to have that insatiable desire to learn more and more because the process is never complete. It's as you said, it's an ongoing thing.

Do you think do you think many students come in with sort of the wrong expectations, too? They'll think I'll come to class and the teacher will teach and I will just absorb. But they don't realise that it's sort of the inverse where the teachers there is sort of inspire and just give them access to information. But they have to be the ones that have driving. Right. They have to be the ones that are teaching themselves.

You described it so perfectly. Yes, that's exactly what happens. And oftentimes they think that, oh, I'm going to a foreign country, I'm going to an English speaking country, which means I'll be surrounded by English, which means I'll absorb everything in six months. I'll be speaking fluently. Yeah. And that is so not true. Yeah. I've lost count of how many times I've had student come up. Students come to me and say... Cry and say to me, oh, I've been here for six months and I haven't learnt anything. Like, oh, it's not that simple, especially if they come here with no English. It takes a long time. It takes a long time. So first you have to get used to the sound of English. You have to get used to the accent. You have to learn a lot of words. You need a lot of vocabulary to be able to understand English reasonably well. And then when it comes to speaking, They need to understand the structure of sentences to be able to make sentences and convey a message. It is a long process and then you have... For you to develop fluency, you have to be able to do all of that quicker and quicker, which requires your brain to be very familiarised with this this process of receiving and giving back information. It takes time as anything in life, practice is the key. Repetition. So it happens quite often. Yeah. So they come here thinking that they are going to learn English or that just being in the classroom, listening to the teacher is going to make them speak. Is going to make them become better writers, better speakers. And that's not true. In my class, I'm teaching an advanced level now, I tell them in CAE there is very little teaching because you're supposed to know all of the grammar by now. And, you know, just to revise the structures and we are going to practice them. We are going to try to use the structures that we'll revise in writing and in speaking. And that's pretty much it. And then we're going to repeat and repeat and repeat all of that over and over again. We're going to write like four or five essays. We're going to write for at least two or three reports, letters using all of the same stuff... All of those structures that you revised. That you were meant to come here already knowing. Or at least being aware of their existence. So... Yeah, that's it. And it's hard for them to understand that. But yeah, they learned they learned the hard way.

Yeah it's funny though because I think it is like weight loss. Right. Or going to the gym where it's like go hard to begin with and it only gets easier. Right. You can get if you come to Australia and you start learning English, really set up those things like you know, living with people who don't speak your native language. Working hard, getting in good habits, getting into a routine and just putting the time in for the first six months. And it'll pay dividends, you know, later on. And you won't have to work as hard or it won't feel like you're working as hard to keep improving. Right. But quite often people... They get here and they don't want to go too far outside of their comfort zone. Right. And so they end up actually having a much harder time overall for a longer period of time than if they'd just really nailed down, worked hard in the beginning. Right.

As you said, it's like going to the gym. Yes. You can't stop. If you stop going to the gym, your muscles will shrink. If you stop practising, if you stop reading in English, you're going to get rusty. If you stop speaking in English. Your fluency levels will decrease. So, yeah, it's... the process will never be complete. Yeah. But that that's what I can say. If you want to get to a proficiency level. That's... You have to develop habits. It's like if you want to have a nice body shape, you have to develop healthy eating habits. So if you want to speak like a native speaker or if you want to increase your fluency levels, improve pronunciation, skills, etc etc., you have to develop habits. So try to read an article on the internet every day. Try to read the news every day. Just do a little bit every day.

And it's those little things that count, right? Like you change your phone into English, change Facebook into English, you know, watch the news in English, read the articles, you know, like all of those pages that you would otherwise like in Portuguese or your native language in English, the equivalent. So that you just... It's little bit by little bit. Your whole world sort of gets Anglicised, I guess. Yeah.

Frankly, a silly thing I did yesterday. I had some blackheads on my face and I was like, Oh, why do I have so many? Where do they come from? And I started asking those questions? And I was like, OK, I'm going to YouTube or read something about it. And then instead of reading about it in Portuguese, I looked it up in English. It's just a habit. It's just a habit.

But this is one of those things. I envy you guys learning English so much because in pretty much any language, any other language in the world that you speak as a native language, when you start learning English, things open up in terms of how much information, media, movies, podcasts, books, you name it, how much access you have to just so many different things. The Internet is effectively in English, right. But for me, when I was learning Portuguese, it was like a bottleneck where all of a sudden, you know, I'm like, holy crap. There's, you know, telenovelas, and that's about it, right? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But there's much fewer podcasts. There's fewer books. And especially in Australia, it's so much harder to get access to any of that stuff. So you almost don't have an excuse. Right. If you if you're interested in anything and you're learning English, you can learn about that thing in English or you can look it up in English if you're trying to research it.

Yeah. Because I guess the amount of people who speak English. Yeah. It's like... I don't know that the right number, the right figure. But it's... yeah, there are a lot more people who speak English in the world than people who speak Portuguese. And like, people who study, people who do research, also, most of them publish the results of their research in English. So you have more access to literally everything you want in English rather than in Portuguese. Yeah. That's a shame.

That's a key though, right, isn't it? It's working out what you're interested in. And it could be anything. And then just following that interest. But doing it in the context of English, so if you like video games, play them in English. If you like, you know, crime novels, read them in English. You can choose your own adventure. But that's the key to staying motivated and use English as sort of like... it's a by-product. Improving your English is a by-product of following your passion that you already have, whether it's, you know, learning how to better clean toilets, whatever! You know, just keep doing that, but do it in English. Like, I recently got a PlayStation 4. I was like, Ah screw it, I'll get one. We need it. We need a DVD player in the house. So I got that. But I bought... Sorry?

Good excuse!

I know exactly. But I've bought a bunch of games that are in Portuguese, that have Portuguese. And so I was like, "Look Kel! I'm learning." But it was in Portuguese from Portugal. So that actually screwed me out quite a lot. I think it was saying things like 'C'um caraças' and 'raios te partem'. All of these expressions that are very weird that I've never heard, but um... Man, Milene, finishing up, how do you meet Australians? I get that question all the time and I'm like, go outside. But what is your advice? If you come to Australia from a foreign country and you really want to integrate and, you know, build a friendship network of Australians? Do you have any advice for what you can do as a foreigner?

You tell me, because honestly, I don't have many Australians friends!

You got one. You got one here!

Look, I'm very lucky because I work in an English school. So, yes, there are Australians there, obviously. And I'm friends with them and especially one of them or two or... Yeah, I'm quite close, like I'm friends and really, really friends with them.

Was there a trick to that, though? because I get asked... It's almost like there's some sort of riddle or some sort of secret to finding other Australians. But you know, ultimately you have to go where they are. Right. And just be interested in what they are interested in and just pursue those sorts of places as opposed to staying, you know, where there are lots of non-natives, I would imagine.

The thing... I find it so tricky because look, I thought about that a few times. And I also found quite difficult to make Australian friends except for the ones I have from school. I have this friend, Danielle. She sits right next to me. She said she's a little bit younger than me, but we have a lot of things in common. So, yeah, so that was one of the things which brought us together. But apart from that, for example, I go to the gym. Here I go... We've been going to the same gym... Excuse me, my husband and I for let's say two or three years. People don't talk to you here!

Yes.

Like you look at the same faces, you see the same faces every single day and they don't say hi to you.

It's hard, though, that I mean... I was thinking about that recently when I was, you know, a bit of a gym junkie. And a big problem, I think is guys look at other guys and they're like, "oh, yeah, this guy's a douche bag." You know, they have that kind of like "Ah yea blah blah." And then you open your mouth and talk to them and you're like "Ah yea, actually he's a really nice guy." And with women, I think especially as a man going to the gym, it's just leave them alone. Don't look at them. Don't talk to them, you know, because you don't want to creep them out or... You don't want them to think that you're perving on them. Yeah, exactly. So it's always like, oh, my God, you know, just leave them alone. They're just doing their thing. And they want to feel comfortable, like don't talk to them. But yeah. And then sometimes you talk to them, get to know them and they'll be like really lovely people and you're like we should've done this way earlier.

Me too. Yeah. So apart from going to work every day I go to the gym. I teach at the gym and then I also do my workout at the gym. And except for my Zumba people like, you know, I'm a Zumba instructor in the evenings. So... There, I meet Australians too. Because I'm very lucky to be there because I am the instructor. I'd say, sorry... I don't think that's the answer you would like me to...

No, no, no, go for it, though. Go for it.

I find it difficult to make Australian friends.

It's interesting because I keep thinking about when I go to Brazil for the first time and I have a feeling that it's not going to be difficult for me to make Brazilians when I go to Brazil. I mean, it's not necessarily the same. Yeah, I think they get a jump on me and be like, oh my God, there's a guy who's interested in Brazil and Portugal!

An alien!

Yeah. Can I get a photo?

Yeah. Everyone is really different, so... I don't know. I find... I, myself, find it quite hard to make Australian friends too.

That sounds like you're very busy and you have sort of a regime set up where you're probably not mingling with many new Australians that often.

That's another thing. Yes. I have two jobs. And yeah, that's basically all I do. Yeah. Finish school in the morning, in the afternoon and go to the gym in the evening. And then my day finishes at 9:00 and I get home and knock back. And that's it. See my husband, have a shower and go to bed. Yes. I don't have a lot of time to mingle and see people out there, but I just think I'm lucky to have Australians around everywhere I go. But if it weren't for that, honestly, I don't know. I would try to go to the RSL club. I'll try to go to... I don't know, go out. Yeah. and I don't know. You have to put yourself out there. That's the thing. Seek and you will find. that's the secret.

Well, it's funny because we move back to Ocean Grove after I was in Melbourne at uni for 10 years and then we went to Canberra because Kel was working for the embassy there. And then we came back here. And I haven't made any new friends in Ocean Grove. And I've been here for more than a year now, you know. And I mean... you go out and you see, you know, the same familiar faces at cafes or whatever. But it's so hard, especially at this age, I feel, of really developing new friendships that are strong and that you can like... It's so difficult to just meet someone in the street or at an event and then... "Come over to my house, meet my family, like, let's chill out all the time!" It's really difficult. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Brazil, like if someone is passing by, you meet them. And I mean, if you're friends with them... and you see them just passing by in front of your house, you can invite them to your house...

There's a story. I got a story for you. When I was getting into photography and wildlife photography, I would go to this lake nearby in Ocean Grove quite a bit and you could walk around it, take photos of birds and whatever else was there. And I kept seeing this guy who was doing the same thing, and I would chat to him and he was like, oh, I've been I was in Maranhão. I used to work for one of the mining companies or something there. And I was like, oh, my wife's from Maranhão. Like crazy. Yeah. And so we were chatting and I told Kel, and she's like, "when are we going to his for dinner?" And I was like, "what?" And she's like, "he didn't ask us over. That's so rude. You've seen him like four times!" you know, "chatting for like half an hour each time and he doesn't ask us to his house?" And I was like, "dude!" And she's like, "if we were in Brazil that are totally be happening! why doesn't he like us?"

Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. But yeah, but here if you're like... You have to plan. You have to, you know, have that on your calendar...

It's a bit like that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah... So yeah... I mean but yeah... You have, you have to put yourself out there and... And try. Just try. People... People tend... Here in Australia I find people very welcoming and open minded. So give it a try. Yeah.

Awesome. Well Melanie, thanks so much. I've had you for about an hour now. Where can people find out... Where can people find out more about you? Sorry?

It didn't even feel like an hour!

I know. Well, they're the best podcasts, I think, when you just get to rabbit away. Where can people follow you or find out more about you or about your school?

Okay. My school @langports on Instagram or Langports.com It's their website. We're in Sydney, but they also have a campus on the Gold Coast. And another one in Brisbane. My... I've got two different Instagram accounts because I do two different things. And yeah, one is @milene.teacher and the other one is @milene.fitness Yeah. You can find me there.

Brilliant. I'll leave all the links in the in the transcript and everything. But thank you so much for today. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you. Nice to meet you. Almost like in person, now!

I know it feels like that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Pete!

All right. Once again, thank you so much, Milene Sales, for coming on the podcast. Remember, guys, if you want to check out Milene, you can find her on Instagram. I'll make sure that I include her Instagram links in the transcript and on the website so that you can check her out and also check out the school that she teaches for called Langports. And I believe they have schools in Brisbane, the Gold Coast and Sydney. By the sounds of it, these schools are absolutely amazing places to level up your English. Anyway, thanks so much again for joining me, guys. It's always a pleasure. And I'll chat to you next time. Peace.