Transcript of AE 1425 - Why Dating Australians Is Weird

What's the weirdest thing about Australian dating? Kel- Kel has so many opinions.

I've seen a lot.

As an outsider, as a foreigner who is now, who is now an Australian.

The weirdest things!

Sides of the fence.

I don't think anything is weird. I think it's just different. And like, if anything, you guys are much more formal. Like, I don't know, it's a little bit more formal than my culture. Like that is a little bit more in like you dating someone like you, you know, there's a lot of weight to it. I think in Brazil things are a bit more relaxed and like, and like, you know, there's just yeah, I don't know, like there is so much.

You guys can't see the face she's making.

I just think it's much more formal and, like, there is a few steps to, to things than probably we skip a bit, a bit, a bit of that. So.

Get straight to the point.

Well yeah, I think I don't know. I think you guys.

I feel judged.

A little bit more formal. Yeah, I don't know I don't know.

G'day guys! Welcome to the Aussie English podcast. Grab a cuppa, get comfy and let's have a yarn!

So every country has different dating culture. Australians think ours is normal, but when you explain it, it sounds incredibly confusing. And today we're going to try explaining a little bit about why. And I guess we'll compare a bit about Brazilian culture, at least how it was 15 years ago or earlier, and Australian culture.

So if someone arrived in Australia tomorrow, what do you reckon would surprise them about dating?

Someone from Brazil?

Oh, it could be anywhere. I mean, what about dating?

You can, you can use Brazil as an example, obviously, seeing as that's close to.

Well, if you're a Brazilian girl, when you arrive here and you are used to not having to do much like you go out, men approach you, that's how it goes.

Yeah.

He, maybe for the best. For the best or maybe not. Men seem to be a little bit more reserved. Don't get, don't come to you and say, you know, oh, I've been looking at you. Whatever. Buy you a drink. It's not much of that.

It's been beaten into us. I think we were a lot more like that in my, my parents generation was probably a lot more like that.

Oh, really?

100%. At least I wasn't alive then. But from what I understand, it was a lot more like you would meet people in social events and you would you would have to approach people. There was no Facebook. There was no text messages. There was no you know, they barely just invented the phone.

Yeah.

That's a joke. But I think it was much more you had to be. Whereas we had obviously, you know, feminism played a huge role in the second part of the 20th century and realising that there were huge issues with sexism and power disparities and everything. And I think now men are very aware, at least most men, that by doing that, you can make women feel very uncomfortable.

Well, it's a good thing in a sense that like, you know, you're not just gonna read the room, you know, you're not gonna approach anyone and be like, hey, do you wanna make out? You know, you just really gotta you read. It's a good thing. But also, I feel like coming from a culture where you literally exchange like eye contact contact and you, you don't have to say much.

That is so foreign to me.

And you just like,you start kissing. But I'm saying that and people might think, oh my God, Brazil. Is this like...

Slutty country.

It's not- no, it's not! Like it's such. You go out and you, you find someone out, you know, it's sort of. That is a connection there. And you somehow, you know that you...

We have these social rules. You obviously...

You have the body language and you, you know, and then you, you kiss like. I guess coming from that place, here, and then you come here and it's like, oh, that is not going to happen.

It was always a funny- like, because before I dated you, like, I don't know, ten years before that, I had a girlfriend and her sister started dating a Brazilian guy. And it was so funny how she was just like, good grief, they are full on. They would just jump your bones. They, they would just they will let you know that they are interested, that they're chasing you. They will grab you. They will, you know. In a, in- and she was almost saying it like you're speaking about it like it was a positive thing because she's like, God, Australian guys are so standoffish. They won't, they won't sort of chase as much.

Yeah.

And it's funny, like, yeah, just hearing those differences. And then when we got together, we almost didn't work out. Right. Do you want to talk about that? You know what I'm talking about.

Just like sort of, miscommunication kind of thing. Like I thought, you know, this is not going to go anywhere. And...

Well, you were getting, you were expecting text messages.

Yeah.

Like, so we had gotten to know each other online. And then after a month or two, we actually caught up in person, went out, hung out. And the next day I was like, don't text her straight away. She's going to be like, God, this guy's so keen. And you were thinking the whole time, why isn't he texting me? Does he not like me? And then when we talked later that night, because I think you were sort of annoyed at me.

Well, no, I was just like, I'm leaving tomorrow, you know, just so you know. But it was.

I know! I know! I just didn't want to seem eager and freak you out!

And it was just this one of those, one of those things of like, you, you thought you were doing the right thing, I thought.

Yeah. Yeah.

From what I was reading, that...

Lost in translation.

Yeah. Literally. So yeah, that's that, you know, difference. I think these days, I don't know. There's a lot of.

Oh, it must be even harder now.

It, it's so hard because that's the online thing as well. You know, if you gotta put someone online and you gotta, you can't, you know, if it's not online, it's not official. And if you know, they like someone's photo, it's there's so much so overwhelming.

Well, I think also people have such high standards because they're constantly surrounded by attractive people online that the algorithm is boosting. So everyone thinks one, those people are everywhere.

Yeah.

And two, if I don't get someone like that, I'm not doing well. And so, you know, they end up holding back or not dating or worried about.

You're always comparing your life in general to what you see online.

Yeah.

In a sense, like I don't don't have the bigger house or this I could be doing better. Like, you always..

I think that's the hardest part I would imagine about dating..

And people back in the day didn't have that, you know, you're sort of happy with what you got.

You just chase the prettiest girl in the village and there was 20 chicks. And you just you tried to find the pretty one.

And it's so deceiving because, you know, some of the happiest people I know they're married or they got together with really normal.

Yeah.

Happy. Just normal, friendly people, you know, you don't see it as a, top models and, you know, like this is very deceiving to think one that you're gonna achieve that. And two, this is what's available now. It's not, you know.

It's almost, it's like showing people the most highly processed food all the time and making people think that that's what's desirable.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So. It is hard.

And forgetting that, you know, it doesn't matter how good they look, you're gonna get used to that and then you're gonna jump to the next thing you know. And it's so confusing. I guess you go to a restaurant, it's like it's a four page menu.

This is analysis by paralysis.

And you're like, well, all of a sudden I don't. I'm not even hungry anymore.

What have you seen? They've done studies, I think, on the perfect number of items to have on a menu. How many do you reckon it is?

Ten?

It's 12.

Really? I get it, really. It will be off topic. I get really irritated if I go to a restaurant and the menu is massive.

I know.

I get really irritated about that.

This seems to be the Asian restaurants in Melbourne we would go to, and they would have 200 items and you would just be like, I'm going to be here for an hour trying to make the right decision.

To me, it says a lot about the quality of the food. It's a bit, it's a bit weird getting to my...

Rationale.

But it's like, what are the chances that you have fresh seafood, butter, chicken and you make good pizzas? Like there is no way. You got to pick one.

Pick one lane!

Pick one thing, you know, and stick with that. That is no way. It just irritates me so much.

Well, yeah, in that situation, I'm always like, what's the best thing on the menu? Just tell me and I'll have it.

Well, you trust people that much. I would never give that choice to a waitress who is like, whatever, dude.

Surprise me.

No, she'd be like the oysters. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that'd be a deal breaker for me. Not a fan. Not a fan of oysters.

So a lot of options out there. Not necessarily a good thing. I think, you have this, like, which is almost like a new, I don't know, structure that you have to manage as well. Like your online presence when you have someone.

And I think I've seen, I've seen people talking about the fact that people don't dance anymore at nightclubs.

Oh my God.

Because they're constantly worried someone will film them. Like kids as well. So we used to, when we were kids at high school, we used to have like the dance party. Yeah. Well, there would be like the ball or whatever it was. There was a yearly kind of event where like a disco type thing and you would dance, you wouldn't care. But now they were saying, kids just don't. They get together, they go to the event, but everyone just stands there because they don't want to be filmed and put online. And so it is. It's one of these interesting things that social media and the smartphone has changed the way in which humans interact. And I think also now it's like processed food where your body thinks you're getting good calories from eating chips because it's like, whoa, there's a lot here, but there's actually no nutrients. People think they're getting good quality interactions with other human beings through social media, whether consciously or not. And so they don't go outside as much in order to actually have high quality, nutrient dense interactions with other people.

Yeah, I think...

And that's affecting dating.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which is affecting how often people have sex, which is affecting how often people have children, which is affecting countries all around the world now. You know, it's funny how it's all sort of a downstream thing. From what I've learned over the last few months. I was, I went down a rabbit hole with these, guys. And it was like, you can see on the graph the moment that, 2007, the iPhone comes in, social media comes in and all of those metrics go down. How often people are dating people in relationships, how often people have sex, how many children people are having.

Yeah.

It all just starts decreasing dramatically.

It's crazy. Yeah.

So what makes it always makes me think, are kids just these days going to get to a point where they boycott this stuff? You know, will it will it come full swing...

Counter culture kind of thing?

Yeah.

In a few years, I don't know. There is a lot of like new. Well, not that I know any, but I've read about it like young, like young adults and teenagers that like, they don't want phones.

They're just rejecting it.

It's like, Nah.

Good on them.

Just, you know, make friends the old way or- and it's hard. It's hard to because every, you know, literally against what everyone else is doing.

And that's the hard part. There's a gravity to it, right? Because everyone else is online. So if you try and pull away...

You're the weird one. Yeah.

Well, you've got to try and get enough people to do it all at once that it creates momentum, right?

That's tricky.

So I have, you have to hope it does. Are Aussies good at flirting? We think we are. These faces! I need to take photos of these each time you react.

I feel so biased because. And I don't want to give this impression of the stereotype of Brazil being wild.

Did you know that Brazil, they're just good at everything. Soccer, flirting, dating, just everything.

I don't want to give this impression and and reinforce the stereotypes, but it's just, well, good is relative. Like, you guys are definitely more respectful. You, you know, there's like a lot less pressure, I would think for you to perform or to, you know, end up in someone's house at the end of the night, you know, but also it you, it's, you don't have the malice, you know,

The malice?

Yeah. There's something- I feel like...

The evilness!

The Brazilian, I feel like I'm like a wolf. If I went out...

The wolf?

And like, these little lambs are like, oh, you know, waiting to be chased a...

Deer in the headlights!

Just cause it's. Yeah.

These Aussie men, they got no idea!

You just come across quite innocent in a sense. But like, that is a very simplistic way to look at it. I don't.

She's a shark in the pool.

Yeah. That's it. It's like oh, you know nothing.

Get out of the way, minnows! Little fish.

Yeah. From like the people that I know that are on like dating apps, it's, it's awful out there. It's my friends always like, oh, are you literally picking the less...

The least worst.

The least worst, yeah.

If I see another guy in a singlet holding a fish, holding a fish or like, or, you know. Yeah, it's a bit rough, I guess. I don't know. It depends person to person. Like this friend in particular is quite reserved. So, you know, if men try to be a little bit more forward, she sort of...

He should probably back away. Exactly.

But then if doesn't, the guy doesn't make the move. She's like, oh, I feel like I'm the man now. It's a relationship. It's so hard for men. Like, how do you, you don't know!

Man, there are so many of these. Uh, yeah, I had those moments too, where I would try. I was always the kind of person that didn't want to rush into things like I. I really liked someone and I would want to take it slow. One, because I didn't want to freak him out. But also it kind of burns up and fizzles out if you rush everything you know straight away. But there were definitely looking back, there were times where I missed opportunities because I was slow and I was just like...

Is that- because I chat about these things in general with my, my boss, who's a I would say he's a good friend of mine. And he's always, there's a classic story that he tells me back in the day that he used to go to this fish and chips or fried chicken shop, and it was this gorgeous girl working there. And they would make small talk and he was like, oh my God, most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And then one day he mentioned that he played tennis or something, and she said, I think you should come to my place and you can play because I have a tennis court or whatever. He goes, oh, I'm not that good. And only him. Years later he goes.

Fuck!

He goes, oh no. Oh my God. And I think, and he's like, I'm like, why is that? He's like- he calls me Sonia. It's like, Sonia, men are dumb.

Yeah.

Like you're not expecting that woman to be hitting on you. And it takes you a little bit of time to believe that.

I have to tell you a story.

Yeah. And it to be like, oh, okay. That is, you know, maybe I don't know. It's which is a good thing. I mean, I don't know. You don't want anyone who is like overconfident.

Part of it...

Is she's totally.

Yeah.

Yeah. But also, you don't want to wait years later to be like, oh, that gorgeous girl was hitting on me, you know?

Yeah, well, that one of those...

He's happily married now...

Once you're married, you kind of look back and you're like, oh, it would have been a bit of fun. But.

Yeah.

I'm not disappointed with where I am now.

Yeah. But also like, you know, it goes to show, I guess there is a tendency for men to be a little bit slow or not believing that, you know, a woman, if a woman is forward and flirtatious like Brazilians tend to be. That's maybe why I feel like you guys can be a little bit shy.

Man, it was funny. I had this moment. So there was this beautiful like half, half, I think Indian or Sri Lankan girl and half, you know, Caucasian that I knew through friends at the gym. Before I, you know, well before we'd met.

I don't mind.

Yeah.

Just go for it. You can just.

I remember we were dating, we went on a few dates and one day I ended up getting her to come back to my apartment. And again, I wanted to hang out with her and spend time with her. But I wasn't trying to rush it because I'm like, I don't want to freak her out. I don't want to burn things out.

It's almost like it's so good to be true. I don't want to waste this. Yeah.

And we've been, you know, kissing and making out and stuff. And she was like, can I stay the night? And I was like, look, I really like you. I don't want to sort of rush things. Maybe we can do it next week or something. And she's- I remember she said to me, What if this is the only chance that you'll get? And I remember saying, that's not going to be the only chance. It was, it was the only chance.

Oh, no!

And then after that, I was like, No!

Why did you do that?

Because I was trying to be a good, you know, honourable.

She's literally saying, do you mind if I stay the night?

That's the only time. That's the only one of those.

The other one. The other times you went for it.

No no no. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Went straight for the kill. It's just like, the door's already locked. No, no, but that was one of those moments where I was like..

Oh, man!

I probably should have just read the writing on the wall.

Far out! That's the thing. Like you don't want to guess someone obviously, with- in today's, in today's world. If a girl is uncertain like, oh, I'm not sure, don't go like, oh, if if they say no, they mean yes. Like if she's clearly being reluctant and being like, oh, I'm not sure.

It wasn't that. It was more if you, if you rush to, you know, having a sexual relationship when you're dating someone, usually, at least from my experience, it's a bad sign. That's not going to last. Because you kind of you're having, you're having, the entree dinner and dessert all at once really quickly. It's not, you're not taking your time to get to know each other. You're not spreading things out a bit. You're not, you know, just going through the, you lose every, all the kind of excitement and expectation and everything too early. And so I was the kind of person that wasn't ever rushing, you know, like, if you have a good date and the woman wants to come home, you're just like, yeah, just do it. You know?

Do you feel like there is a, I don't know, like pressure on men to be like, you know, you went all the way, you know, like you felt. Do you ever feel like as a young man to be like, oh, I want you to be respectful?

You would have that from other men.

But yeah, like..

You wouldn't have that...

Are you dumb, like, kind of thing. How did you let it go? But like, you didn't feel like you should do that, you know?

I don't know. It would. I've just always had that view of I don't want to...

Make anyone uncomfortable.

No, it wasn't the uncomfortable thing because I knew she wasn't uncomfortable. It was more, I don't want to rush it all and just, and just ruin it. I don't mind taking my time getting to know the person and just not rushing it. Whereas my housemate was the complete opposite.

Oh, I remember. Yeah, yeah.

He he went through God, he must have been on 5 to 6 dates a week.

And it would be, it was. It was more often than not, I kid you not. He would bring home a different girl each night.

And just come out and say, oh, were you here? Oh never mind.

It was every day. I was like, there was a different woman.

Oh my God.

You know, all types and I just remember...

I get the variety is a good thing. But also I would get so sick of people. Like, there is the factor of, there is only so much of it you can have.

I remember saying to my friend, aren't you exhausted?

It's not gonna be...

Like a full time job...

Mind blowing every time, you know? And it's like, oh, and then you have to deal with it. It was...

For him. I think it was probably he was a late bloomer. He didn't get a lot of female attention back home. And he came from a different country and we lived together. And I think all of a sudden he'd kind of found himself gotten fit at the gym, was doing jiu jitsu all the time, had a good job, could take women out. And yeah, he just, it gave him a, he felt good about himself.

Yeah. Well, and.

But he's happily married now with a kid. But it was just. And he found, you know, his wife eventually through dating all these women, I remember I think, you know...

I wonder what she did differently.

She hung around. Like she just kept coming back! And she's like...

Like, Hello!

Super, super like the pants in the relationship. Yeah, yeah. It was really...

I was saying before...

She tamed, she tamed the beast.

Like, like I mentioned, it must be so hard for a man or a young man these days with all these like, you know, unwritten rules and things about women. And like, we're definitely much more forward or more confident or, you know, like if it's a woman saying it's, she's clearly unsure. She say, I don't want to say tonight. I don't, you know, even not saying I don't want to or being like, I'm not sure about this way, safer way is to go. Okay. No, but in your case, she did say, what if I do? So it's just like, yeah, it's just like...

That. Those words in my head, what if this is your last chance...

When a woman's being that forward, it's like, dude.

Ah, I've just gotta...

Let's go.

In, in my next life. I'll just have to not be as, as understanding and cautious. All right. What was your first date like when you were younger?

Probably high school. It wasn't really a date. It was like after school when me to behind this whatever. And you just quickly kissed her and I went home.

That's not a date. Kel!

That's not a date. A date? A proper date?

Yeah!

God.

Like, did you go to the movies? Did you go to a restaurant?

I went to the movies, yeah! I went to the movies and we watched Pirates of the Caribbean, which just goes for like three hours. He didn't touch my hand, like, for, like, once. Like, he just watched the movie. He was really into it.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, okay. And then we, I went home and nothing happened.

He's, meanwhile, he's thinking that was the best date ever. Pirates of the Caribbean. That was sick!

Ten out of ten movie. It's like, yeah. No.

I did the same thing, though, when I was a teenager. I can't remember how I met this girl. We must have been like 16 or 17. And I asked her, you know, you want to go to the movies? We went to the movies and then we got something to eat and it was like, cool, thanks. See you later.

Yeah.

And I remember being like...

Is that it?

Well, I remember- no, it was just like, why the fuck did we go and sit in a dark room for an hour and a half and not talk?

It's not dying to see a movie. I could do it all by myself.

And it's funny- like this. This goes to probably the expectations around dating,. In Australia. For me when I was dating because I in my mid to late 20s, I was dating actively, like trying to meet different people, trying to find the right person. I realised the clock was ticking. I had this thing in my mind if I wanted to have kids about 30, so I needed to find the right woman. My go to was typically, let's get a drink or let's get a coffee. And it's funny because I think Australian culture is very like minimal effort in terms of initial dates.

That is so weird.

You- many women I've heard probably Australians to criticise this and they're like these lazy men.

Low effort.

My perspective was I want it to be as like low effort as possible. So that.

Like, literally!

I don't know how to say, yeah, well, like it's meant to be no frills attached. I don't want to be impressing you with money. I don't want to have to impress you with money for you to stick around. I don't want to have to be like, I'm gonna do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to buy all this stuff. I'm going to spend all this money. Please like me, please, please stay. Because I want to know that the person genuinely likes my, my company, my, you know, conversation with me without any of that stuff polluting the well, r

ight. You would. Yeah. It's so different for women though.

Yeah, I know that. I know that was always my thing.

You want to dress up, you know, it's a big thing. You literally preparing for it for the whole day. You shave, you do your hair, you know, you buy a new dress and then you go out for dinner and it's like a nice restaurant, you know, it feels like this guy is taking me out to this nice place, you know.

I would do that on a second, a third, a later date, but that initial one, it would usually be...

If someone asked me to go out for a coffee...

The worst thing would be for a man, I think in particular. I mean, again, you guys tell me maybe I'm wrong, but it would be putting in all that effort, spending all that money and she's a moron. Or you don't get along with her or she's, you know, she's a massive racist...

It's getting dangerous. Well...

Because I would want to know. That's what I, before I, before I super invest in like, not even just the money side of it, but the time like, okay, we're going to go to a restaurant. I've made the booking, we've got it for like two hours or more and we're going to do all this, this and this and this. Before any of that, I want a real idea of, do I want to spend time with this person?

I get where you're coming from, but also it, it comes across as very like, you know, I don't think you're worth it in the first place. I'm just gonna test the waters a little bit.

But doesn't that- isn't that somewhat like sexist? Because you think men have to spend money for it to be worth it?

No, but no one is. You're the one talking about money. Like, we will literally buy a new dress, get our hair done, shave, you know, make sure we got, you know, makeup. It's on top. Like that's all these things involved. And you've been anxious for the whole day!

Are you doing that for me or for you?

We're doing that. So we feel confident around you and you want us to think we're pretty. And you know, you want us to be you want you to be impressed.

But is it also partly because you just enjoy the process of getting dressed up?

We enjoy the fact that someone who's going to look at you on that night and be like, blown away, that is like, wow, this is a gorgeous woman, you know?

But how do you know they don't have that feeling anyway?

If they.

Right?

Well, you don't-.

This is the thing women don't realise men often have that feeling. You don't need any makeup. You don't need to be wearing amazing clothes. And we are blown away. All that other crap is just wrapping paper on an amazing gift.

You know, it's just a very low effort, man. Oh, like...

Well, it worked.

I know.

Look where we are.

Well, I don't know. I don't know. Just. Yeah. I don't know. We- you got to remember these are little girls that grew up watching Disney movies and the princess and the prince, you know, deep inside of us, all of us-.

Polluted.

As much as we say we independent women now like this is going to get me cancelled.

Propaganda. Brainwashing.

We gonna, this is gonna be like saying, you know, we're independent. I can pay for my own dinner or whatever.

I don't want you to do it.

But we still someone, want someone saved him. And I just want to be.

That's still part of...

Taken care of.

But at the same time, I guess my point is I'm not avoiding all of that later.

Yeah.

But my initial thing was always, I want to just get to know this person in a simple environment.

I understand what you're saying...

Without going crazy.

Yeah.

Because you just don't want to go to all that effort. Like it'd be like you going on a blind date as a woman, I think, right where you've you put in all this effort, dressing up, wearing everything, and then you, the moment you arrive, within two minutes, you're like, oh, I don't want to be here.

I guess the good side of it would be making people comfortable. Like you don't have to be on your, you know, the absolute best, you know, in the ways of like the way you look or anything, you just be yourself casual. That's a good thing. But also, yeah, I don't know. I feel like.

I've got a funny story.

I feel like inside of us, there's always this little girl wanting to be taken care of.

I know, I know, I know, it's a balance. It's a balance.

Yeah.

I had a friend, from the gym back when I was in my 20s. And I remember he used to, he was dating at the same time and he, but his thing was taking women to restaurants.

Yeah.

And I remember being like, but if you've never even met him and you don't really know them, what happens if you don't like them? And he's like, oh, I just say, I'm going to the toilet and then I leave.

That's, that's an old trick.

And I'd be like, wait, is this after you've ordered food?

And you paid?

And he's like, yeah, I ordered the food and just leave. And it's their problem. And I'm like...

That's awful. I guess at the end of the day, first of all, what are the chances this person's gonna turn out to be absolutely unbearable. Like you surely spoke before you went out for dinner with him.

He was a very shallow guy.

And then in the end, if it's all bad, like at least you had good food. You know, make sure you choose a nice restaurant. At least you had good food.

But I think your perspective is probably thinking, well, I didn't like him, but I had good food and he's thinking, well, I didn't like her and I had to pay for her food.

Well, yeah.

All right, all right. So, dating in Australia today, I think we've talked about, you know, Tinder, Hinge. One of the biggest things that I think is hard is the ghosting, right?

That is that human, that's a human thing of I don't want to deal with the uncomfortable emotion.

I know, but it's so..

Is it, is it a big..

I think it's just a social media smartphone-type, you know...

You can just block people and that's it.

But it's, it's such a weird thing because you can't really get away with it in person, right? You can't have a conversation with someone. And then mid-conversation, just at least socially. Just turn around and walk away without...

Well, that's your friend.

Yeah. Yeah, it's not a common thing, but whereas online, you just stop replying.

I used to be very critical of that. But now like, again, getting older and you know, sometimes that conversation that is gonna potentially have someone crying in front of you, you know, I understand. I'm not saying it's the right thing. I say, I understand, you know, what are the chances I'm never gonna see her again or him again? I'll block them. That's it. You know.

But that's it's always.

It's awful, but it's like I get...

Facebook Marketplace and selling things.

Oh, yeah.

Because I do, I do a lot of that with, you know, guitars and other paraphernalia, plants.

And it drives me absolutely insane where people just disappear.

Yeah.

Is this, is this available? I'd like to get it. Can you deliver it today? Can I buy it today? And you're like, yep, no worries. Here's the time. Here's how much. And they'll be like, oh..

I forgot?

Oh, no. I left the conversation. And you'd just be like, oh, for fuck's sake. Just say, look, I'm sorry, mate, I've changed my mind. You know, like the same with dating. There's, there's a nice way of doing it where you can just say, look, I think you're a nice person. I don't think this is going to work out or I'm. I'm not interested. I'm really sorry, but I don't want to waste your time. And then you tap out.

But that's the other thing though. Can you, can you be that honest?

I think well, I think it's something you need to practice.

I think it goes...

The thing that most people, most people can do that. It's not like, you know, impossible that people can be courteous and respectful of others, even if it's uncomfortable.

I guess if it's a guy saying to a girl, look, you know, not necessarily my type. I was trying to see where this was going. She was like, you know, I wasn't into you anyway, blah, blah, blah. And then the other way around of like the girl ditching the guy, him being like, but I think I don't want to date you, whatever.

You can do it in such a way that you're not a dick, right? Like, again, obviously if you said to someone, I'm too good for you and I don't want to date, you...

No. I guess, yeah...

Yeah, they're gonna get defensive. But if you just said to someone, you know- again, you start with a positive. I think you're a really lovely person. Yeah.

Two positives and negative in the middle.

I don't feel a connection. I'm really sorry. I wish I did. I think you're amazing. I wish you luck and you know.

The best, all the best.

Yeah. Tap out. Like, adios. Like.

Yeah, I don't know.

Would it- like, what else can you do in that situation? And if the other person turns around and says, fuck you, you piece of shit. It's sort of a red flag. It shows you that the other person was was probably not the right person for you.

You, you fica say, you say... You stay with someone you're only dating if there is a formal proposal. Like, do you want to be my girlfriend?

We need to slow down. You're gonna have to explain what ficar means.

Ficar is like a...

Very Brazilian cultural thing that is not common.

So you can be ficando or ficar with someone.

Staying with me.

Stay. You saw each other on a in a party or something. You sort of kissed, and then you have them on your contacts and you message them every now and then. If it happens, you're in the same place, you're gonna kiss again, or they come to your place every now and then.

It's kind of like hook-up buddies, right?

You are not dating and you have no commitment to that person whatsoever. You know, if.

Which is weird, because ficar means stay.

Staying!

Yeah. Like staying with someone.

And that is that both parties acknowledge that you have no commitment. And if two days later you show up on Facebook dating someone like officially so and so is in a relationship, it's okay.

I guess it's good that you at least have a word for it so that you can express that, that idea.

You can like, we were just ficando, we were not...

We were just 'staying'.

'Staying' like, and it's very, it's...

Socially acceptable.

Many couples will be in that dynamic for a long time before they even are boyfriend and girlfriend.

That's, it is very, I think in Western culture or well, you know, in in Australian culture here, it's very, you would have to be explicit about something like that. It I guess it would be the rule. This is what I always got annoyed with my housemate because he was always dating so many women at the same time and I'm like, dude, do you do they know that you're like bringing home all these people simultaneously all the time? You know, because I feel like that would probably change the situation with many of them. For me, it was always like you could be talking to multiple people to get to know them. But the moment you ask someone out, they get your focus.

Well, you also don't have that mental energy to be. People don't realise how much energy it takes. If you're talking to so many people and there are so many versions of yourself that you literally curating to, and it's exhausting. So it's like, I'm by myself. That's, I think one of the main things that people find one single pain in the end is like, you don't can't be bothered. It's like it's too much, you know? And then for him to be doing that multiple times a week, that's, you know, respect.

It used to blow me away.

But like, yeah, I just can't. It's exhausting. So.

Yeah.

Yeah. So in Brazil, we just, you know, you have that. And then if the guy asks, you want to be my girlfriend, then your boyfriend and girlfriend...

You need to say the words.

You say the word and then you know, who knows after that. But like, yeah, it's no, you can even say like, oh, so and so is here, but we just, we can't. I'll go out with someone else.

Yeah. Okay.

Like it's very fluid and like, there's no hard feelings. You know, obviously people do tend to sometimes get a bit like, oh, I thought, this is good. It was going somewhere. But like general rule, if you're not officially a couple, meaning the guy proposed to be your boyfriend.

That guy probably got down on one knee.

No, not that, but just like, all right, are we exclusive now? Do you want to be- like that sort of talk? Anything before that, it's up for grabs.

No holds barred. Yeah. So what do you reckon Australians actually value when it comes to dating? You know.

I don't know. I think Australian society is a bit conservative.

But what's...

Like I think more men want a housewife. Like they want a I think so I think men want someone who is like, all right, she'll be a good mum. She'll be, you know, she works. But it's not so much that it's going to be any more than me or like, you know, she's...

Man, I wish!

She's like,

I. Yeah, it's a weird one...

I think most men have this very maybe romantic or romantic way of looking at things of it's gonna be my little. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

I don't feel I never felt like that.

You don't feel like that?

No. I always wanted a partner in crime, and I got one. That's a compliment. What the. You know, I wanted someone to hang out with. I wanted an equal. I didn't want, like, a servant, you know? I didn't want someone who I'm the worker. You're the stay at home woman that takes care of all the gross stuff.

Yeah.

I wanted. I wanted someone that I was best friends with, you know? I don't know.

Maybe it's just from, like, seeing, like, what is on social media and some young people that I know, I think sometimes both sides have really high standards of like, you're gonna be earning this or that's a lot of focus on again, so formal, like.

But have you, have you ever noticed that I've seen those things online whether I don't usually it's in America and it'll be men or podcasters asking women, what do you want in a man? And they'll say, six figures, six inches, six feet. I know there's probably part of that, but there seems to be those very like, high expectations on the part...

I guess both sides. That's like massively, expectations of- Not only are you gonna be an amazing wife, but you're gonna have-.

Amazing wife, amazing lover...

Amazing...

Amazing worker that makes a lot of money.

Yeah. And like what? What, where are these people? Like, no!

That's the funny thing. I think these people that do these questions for people are like when they actually ask, you know, height, wage or whatever, and then they say, okay, that's 0.0005% of the population.

I never like, I've never had a type of like, oh, I'm gonna date someone has to be like that. Like, you know, there are definitely things that I don't like, you know? But like, it was never like, you know, he's a bit small for me. Like never. I never, from a very young age can not, can not remember having such a checklist of things that I had to tick and in order to...

Well, there would be things there. Because for me, it was always, firstly, can I talk to them and do they like my sense of humour? Can I make them laugh? Do they make me laugh? And do we just have spontaneous fun? Am I obviously attracted to them? Like, sexually attracted to this person? Because I think that's hugely important no matter who you are. And that was pretty much it. You know, like, I didn't really care what their job was. Even what their politics were like. It didn't that kind of thing didn't, they didn't have to be exactly the same as me.

I feel like these days, everything is such a deal breaker. Everything. Like, oh, I know someone who is like, oh. But then like, he followed Charlie Kirk on Instagram. Absolutely not.

Everything, yeah...

It's like...

Here are 99 of the things that he was good at and that I liked. And then there was this one deal breaker.

That is so much, you can't say the wrong- you can't make a joke. Like you can't maybe you come across a little bit like, you know, over the top and like, just be. It, in politics.

That's such a massive thing now. Like if you're dating someone who is heavily left wing. Like you can't just.

It depends on the person though, too. Again, that was the thing for me.

It was always extremes, you know.

Yeah, it depends how much they push that stuff on me because ultimately I just like talking to people of all different religions, politics, whatever. I don't really care. But if they end up making it your problem. Like you need to agree with me. No matter what the topic is, it becomes uncomfortable.

It's just weird. There's so many things that, like, people are very like, I can't, I don't want and maybe that's the good thing. Maybe that's, you know, some people stay single for much longer until they find that specific special person that maybe that's a good thing. What do I know? But like, I feel like back in my day, we would put up with things, you know, a little bit more resilience there and just being like, well, he jokes, but it's okay. You know.

He farts sometimes...

You know, that's not the worst, you know. I can deal with that. No, it's just a lot of.

The Pro column is still way more...

Tick all the boxes and everything is so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

What's something you thought mattered when you were younger that doesn't anymore?

In terms of dating?

Yeah. I guess these things, these values, these things, were there things when you were younger? Was it like, oh, I need to make sure that when I find the right person or date someone, that they need to tick these boxes, and then now you look back and you're like, girlfriend, those weren't even the main problems, you know, that you should have worried about.

I don't know. That's, it's hard because everyone is different. Like I've dated people that were like completely different from each other. I guess you focus less like, when you focus more when you're young on that superficial things. You know, someone's good looking and you all of a sudden like, oh, he's into me.

There's a, there's a kids movie I can't remember. It's like the Swan Princess and there's the prince in it, right? So he, he, this girl, you know, this, this, this girl that he wants is there and he wants to marry her and they're having a ball or whatever, like where they their party and everything. And she's like, why do you like me? And he's like, you're beautiful. And she's like, what else? And he says, what else is there?

Woah!

And I'm like, oh, dude!

Brutal. Brutal.

Someone hand him a shovel.

Yeah, that sort of stuff, that superficial stuff that is, you know, the things that have white and flashy when you're young that like, just make you feel so special. They count in a sense. But like, at the end of the day, it's just how someone makes you feel, you know, it doesn't matter if they're six foot, you know, it's just not that big of a deal.

Before. So I had one long term relationship before you that was like, I think it was 18 months and then probably ten years before I met you, it was just a string of three month long, long type relationships, you know, maybe 1 or 2 a year max, probably not even that. And I people used to always ask me, why, why do you break up with these people? And I'm like, if I know even, you know, they're beautiful, they're like this, they're like this, they're this, they're rich. They're whatever it was, I would be like, yeah, but I don't get along with them the way that I see myself wanting to get along with my partner, we haven't clicked the way that we should. I could totally just stay with this person because, hey, life would be easy.

And people look at me and say, look how hot my partner is. But...

Well, any of that stuff. Look how rich they are, look how hot they are. But I was like, that was why I was always like, I want to make sure like that we talk talked about that situation, with the half Indian Sri Lankan girl.

Yeah.

It was like, I want to make sure this is the right person that I totally click with like I want. And I was really hoping with her that it was.

Yeah.

And clearly it wasn't, you know, and that's just how it goes. But I think, yeah, looking back, that was one of those things where I don't regret that at all.

It just doesn't, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, it's obviously nice to feel good about yourself because you've got someone who is very attractive next to you. But like time will go anyway.

Yeah.

Time will pass. That'll be things. You know, when you're five years into this, there will be things that you look at and be like, maybe it doesn't matter how beautiful you are.

It's the honeymoon period wears off.

It's like it does. And you just, it doesn't sustain itself. So probably looking back, things like that, I was. But again, you're young and these relationships, when you are when you are young, are meant to be, you know, quick and you're learning and you sort of. I find it really weird these days when I see someone young and I've, I've known I've met a few people like very young, like 19, 20, that friend of mine who is like, oh no, I'm engaged. I'm moving in with so-and-so. I'm like, wow.

Dude!

Okay...

Rushed!

Like, I just can't. Yeah. You change so much like you.

I think it's funny. That's probably one of those things we're talking about too, from an Australian perspective. Many cultures around the world prefer that people haven't had sex before marriage. You know, often because of religion or conservative, you know, cultures. I think we're a lot less like that in the West and in Australia in particular, where from my perspective, growing up, at least when I was younger and dating people, it was almost like I definitely wanted whoever I was dating to have had other relationships before me.

Absolutely.

Because I want to be sure that they know and appreciate what it is that they have the same way I do. When they actually, you know, settle down with the right person.

Yeah. Or just maturity, you know, if you don't know, I feel like you're teaching this person and you feel like you have all of a sudden you have. It's not two independent...

There's a disparity.

Mature, mature adults like you have a responsibility here of like, this person doesn't know much about this now. Yeah. It's just a power imbalance that it feels weird.

I guess if you could go back and give yourself your younger self advice about dating, what would it be? And why? What sort of advice would you give Young Kel?

Well, it depends. Like you don't have to stay in a relationship that you're not happy with because you're scared of being alone. Like you'll be fine. Like don't make someone your, your identity, like this relationship is not your identity. Like you can handle being by yourself. I would say that like, don't, don't feel like you have to stick around when you know it's not for you.

Yeah.

Because you know, you're scared of being alone. Be alone. You'll be a better partner later on if you are alone for a while. You know, if you learn to be self-sufficient and confident and all that. It's not a big deal. I would say like to myself, chill. You know, people come and go. It's not the, it is not the love of your life. There is no such thing. You know, like we are all evolving, changing humans. It's just fine. Like we, I felt like as a young person dating, I was always. So that's gotta be the one, you know, that's. And I've had really long relationships every time. And I always felt like that is a massive. I can't break up. We've been together for five years or whatever. And it's just like, you chill, you know, you'll be fine. Don't put so much of who you are into this because it can end. And if it ends, then you're left with this massive, you know, identity crisis that you shouldn't be like if you but that comes, it's entangled with like family dynamics and other things. So every experience is different. I feel like from my context, it always felt like this is gonna be what changes my life. You know, I met this person that...

Put a lot of expectations very early on.

This is gonna be- nothing can go wrong. We can't argue. Like I would just be like with this particular partner. We never argued. And I thought that was a great thing. And it was not because when we did, it was like, you know, massively blown blow-outs of all this resentment and anger because we never had that. Yeah, I just it's not a big deal, you know, date for as long as you want, go through as many people as you want because it's all at the end of the day, it's only gonna make you more experienced and more sure of who you are.

Yeah.

You don't have to make this your entire identity. Yeah.

I'd probably tell myself to spend more on dates.

Yes! I would say, totally. If I could give you an advice. Take the girl...

This is about me giving my advice to myself.

Take the girl to a nice restaurant, get the flowers, you know, go the extra. Because if anything, you just had a nice dinner.

Maybe you know this girl where it fizzled out and she said, you know, maybe this is the last. Maybe it's because I didn't take it to the right restaurant.

Well, coffees are nice, but, like...

Food's better.

Food's better. She's probably had. She- tell you what? Women go to the extreme of like, I will not wear this dress, I want to this is back in my day. Women today are very empowered and different. Maybe they don't care. Back in my day, you want to look so good in this dress. You want to make sure you fit. Don't want to be bloated. I'm just gonna, now gonna...

Just gonna have some nibbles.

I'm just gonna nibble. I'm in water and like cucumber because then I look good. And you have dinner anyway, and then you show up and ask her to go to coffee. It's gonna make her even more, you know, hungry. If, it's like...

I think part of it, I guess part of the, the, the story though, was that I, I typically knew them a little bit before.

Yeah, I get what you mean, I'm taking...

It wasn't a blind date. But yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. If I was trying to impress someone because that was the first interaction, I probably wouldn't have been like..

I think men don't realise how much of women, how much of our lives as women is lived inside our heads. Like if you, let's say you had a date tonight, it's 4:00 or whatever. You'll be chill doing your thing, working.

I might be freaking out.

And then we will be "reporting to headquarters".

You know, the girls know about it. What dresses am I going to try on? You know, that is, we live so much in our heads.

That's one of those pieces of advice I think I would give women would be just chill.

Yeah, we should chill. Yeah.

Guys don't care. We're not there talking about your makeup, talking about what you wore.

But don't you appreciate? Wouldn't you appreciate? Oh, she looks stunning.

I...

Really?

I mean, I would probably, I would probably think that, but it's like...

It's not a deal breaker.

No way. If you had just I mean, clearly if you showed up and it looked like you just woken up and you had scruffy hair. Yeah, you put in zero effort, I'd probably be like, what the fuck? You know, you could still come back from that! If you were charming. And I had a laugh with you, I think I would still, I would be like, man, you know what? I don't really care.

Yeah. Interesting. Oh, yeah.

Quite often I would just be like, dude, over the top. Like.

Yeah. Especially if you're not that person and you're very relaxed and casual and she shows up and like high heels, massive nails, you know, the whole...

You know what? That would have made me feel like, oh shit. She's from a different, like, group of people. Like, it would make me feel intimidated. I think almost where I would be like, she's too high, high maintenance, high quality, expecting too much in terms of everything I wear, fashion, perfume. I would just be like, whoa, this is intimidating. If I had loads of money, I'm sure it probably...

I hate how it, it's such a like, I hate this like early stages of things when you are just everything is a measurement for something like, oh, like, but she he wasn't wearing that much of a, you know, he didn't have a nice car or like all these little things.

This is a, I think this is more of a feminine thing. We don't typically, at least from memory.

Mmm, sorry.

We don't typically like, I don't get together with the guys after a date back in the day and be like, she wore this and she was this and she did this like women I would not talk to my friends about. It would be, did you go out and date? Yeah. Was it good? Was she hot? Yeah, she was hot. It was good. That would be like the conversation. It wouldn't be like she smelled like this and she did this and her boobs with this. I wouldn't be talking about those sorts of things. Like.

It's not shallow like that, but like we do. You know...

Little debriefs!

Little things of like, oh, you know, he got the door for me and like, I got that he had like flowers or like, he got this really nice wine or something.

I can imagine that you're enjoying the experience.

... Little things of like, we would like, yeah, the, the girls.

They want to live vicariously. Yeah. See, I don't think- guys don't really get off on that stuff. I don't think like, tell me more about what you said to her and what was she wearing?

Yeah. You don't want to know? You don't want to know what was said? Oh my God! I want to know what was said. Everything! Every single word!

I said. Oh my God. Next time I have a friend who's going on a date, I'll say that to him and I'll report back about what he tells. He'll probably tell me to go fuck myself.

Like, I don't care what she said!

Get a room, dude, this is none of your business.

No, we need to know.

So.

Like, he said this and then like...

Oh God, you guys. You guys are just a different species.

We need to know.

What actually matters? What actually matters with relationships? How do you make them work?

I'm not the person to talk about that.

Why? You've got a relationship that's currently working!

But like. Well. I don't know.

All the things- how did you know when you were dating someone? What were the things that, that stood out to you that mattered, that showed you..

If I was comfortable with them? Like if I didn't have to mask. Or like, pretend I'm someone else, you know.

100%. That's exhausting.

The conversation flows and I can be weird without being like, dude, this is a massive, you know, shouldn't have said that.

It's so funny. The first time, like, because this goes back to- I'm never gonna forget this. You commented on one of my YouTube videos back when I first started. It must have been a few years in.

Oh, trick.

1 or 2. Yeah, well, I don't know why you did, but you said something like, thanks for teaching me English. These are great, I speak Portuguese. If you want to do a English or Portuguese like chat trade in terms of practice, let me know.

Jesus Christ.

And I think I just sent you a message on, like I said, oh, just message me on Instagram.

All my ancestors going. Well played.

Was that- is that what happened? Because I don't think I've ever asked you!

No, not. What do you mean? Like, if I had like..

Were you thinking like, maybe I'll get to know him?

No! No, no, no.

Or was it genuinely just a oh...

It was literally like, oh my God, a gringo is like..

He's learning Portuguese.

Learning Portuguese. You know how much Brazilians. We love that other people enjoy our culture.

Yeah.

We just like, it doesn't matter. You've seen it. It's insane. Like not, no other culture in the whole world. It's like so and so is making, not making fun, but like taking the piss out stereotypes about Brazilians.

Yeah.

We love that. So that was..

If someone was doing that about Australia. I wouldn't care.

You'd be like, what?

But yeah. So you like that. It's funny because..

It was there, they're like, oh my God, you know.

When this was in my dating phase. So I was thinking, oh, cool, I'll get to know her. Who knows, you know, and maybe we just chat. And then the first time we had a chat, I was just like, God damn, like, very attractive. And then you sent me a meme. I think I made a joke after the..

Bring on the memes.

Yeah. One of these memes, one of these GIFs on like, on Facebook or Instagram where we were chatting away and I think I said, you told me, oh, I'm in Townsville. And I said like, well, you better start walking or running now because it's like 3000km from where I am. And you sent me this little meme of Forrest Gump running down the road and around the corner. And that was it's so funny because that was the moment where I was like, she gets it.

I can have a whole conversation...

sense of humour, she gets it.

With memes, you know.

That.

And that sort of.

That sticks with me. I always remember that moment of like, that was when I realised and that's when it hit him, you know, she's the one.

Well, I don't know.

Holy shit, it's Jason Bourne!

I guess from like, you know, I told you about my friend the other day, like the guy said something. There is a thing online, you know, that people say like a meme. And the girl, my friend didn't like it.

Yeah. She raged.

She raged. She thought I was too forward or whatever. I would have just laughed.

Exactly.

I was like, dude, like, you know, gave it back at him. Just like, oh, we'll see. You know, like just, you know.

If that's not her personality, it's not her personality.

That's it. She did the right thing for who she is. She doesn't like that. I would just have laughed.

Exactly. And that's that's why it worked out. That's why we're here.

I would just be like, yeah, whatever, dude.

But that-

Netflix and chill.

I think that was the important thing, not taking life too seriously, making jokes constantly and even being cheeky and taking the piss out of me. Just.

It sort of testing waters to like, you can see how far you can push a little bit and like how forward you can be. And, you know, if the person is like giving it back at you? Sort of. Yeah. I don't know. Also not having pressure of like, oh, I have to make this work. Like you're just chatting, you know, you're not thinking much of it. You're just having fun being...

I think. And that's it. The thing that I was always looking for and the advice that I would give anyone listening who's currently dating.

Find someone that you can just talk to. And it doesn't have-.

You can have a laugh with.

And it go- time flies. You're not thinking about it. You're just having fun. And if you can just relax in that moment and you're not thinking about what do I say? What do I do? How do I, you know, you just enjoy this other person. You found the right one.

If your experience is being outside of your body, watching yourself and monitoring everything you're doing. You shouldn't be there. You should be so immersed in it that you forget what time it is. You're like, oh my God, it's already 8:00. You know, we've been chatting for so long. That should be the feeling of I really like to be around this person. Yeah.

All right. Let's do some rapid fire questions as usual. Coffee date or pub date? Coffee date.

Pub! 100%! A nice pub any day.

Beach or mountains? Beach.

Mountains.

First move or wait?

First move for me.

Wait!

Texting or calling?

Ohh, texting! Oh my god. No. No calling. Again. Just a parenthesis. One thing these days, these kids. All they want to do is call. All my friends are like, oh yeah, I was on the phone with this guy. I was like, wait, wait, wait...

That's too much commitment!

On the phone? With this guy? Like, Peter, called me? I think legit something happened to the kids. Like there's no phone calls happening. Like no way. Absolutely no-

Just with anyone. Not dating or...

Audio files, maybe. Calls are next level. Like next level. No.

Split the bill.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Flowers or no flowers?

Sometimes flowers. Not all the time.

It's a bit over the top, right.

Yeah.

Camping date or absolutely not?

Absolutely not. I-.

I'd totally do a camping date.

I am not. No. I'll be in a nice hotel with a warm shower...

Netflix and chill.

What's the biggest green flag?

Sense of humour.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you could be a psychopath with a sense of humour.

Well, we're still, you know. That's the dinner thing. Still had a good laugh. You know, maybe you're not dating material. Like you're not. We will not be a good boyfriend, but, like, you know, if you laugh with someone. I always tell this to my boss. Again, our conversations about everything. Women don't, we don't want the hot guy. Like, we don't want the six pack. If a guy makes a woman laugh, he's halfway there. Make a woman laugh. Be the funny. You're not gonna be stupid, but be the funny guy. That's it. We just want to have a laugh. And you're just the prettiest man for her.

Biggest red flag?

If you just talk about yourself, you don't ask questions. You're just like me, me, me. I did this.

Look how impressive I am. Like, you know, that's a turn off.

Or if you can't take a joke. If I remember, like, if you were dating someone and you would make a joke about something that they wore, they did, they said or whatever, and they got angry at you.

Yeah.

That.

Even if it was a, it wasn't a joke that they enjoyed, but like to get angry at it. It's a bit like, yeah, well, chill.

One perfect date or lots of average dates?

Lots of average dates.

I think you didn't pick the one perfect one, because then you've had the perfect one. And...

There's no such thing! Because every time you meet a person, it's a different person.

It's a hypothetical question!

I know, but like one time it's like...

No, but you get to see them later. The dates later on are just shit.

I don't know. I think meeting someone several times and like, you know, I don't know. I like to date. What do I say? What's the word for it? The build up to it.

Yeah. Anticipation.

The anticipation. You know, you're gonna get this and then like, you know, I'm such a girl. Yeah.

All right, well, we'll leave it there and ask you guys to guess a few follow up questions. What's dating culture like where you live? And what's something Australians would probably find surprising about it. So let me know in a comment below or send me a message. And besides that, yeah, we'll chat to you next time.

See you later!

Thanks for hanging out with us! Tooroo!