Transcript of AE 1441 - Interview: Indian Roots, British Childhood, Australian Life - Prithi Dey, Head of Podcasts at Spotify AU NZ

Pete:
G'day guys. Welcome to the Aussie English podcast. I am your host, Pete. Today I'm chatting with Prithi Dey, who is the head of podcasts at Spotify across Australia and New Zealand. A big thank you to her for coming on and sharing her story.

Pete:
I cross paths with her recently and after getting to know her a little bit and hearing about her interesting story, I thought it would just be absolutely brilliant to have her on the podcast to share her experience growing up in Great Britain, having migrant parents who were originally from India, and also her career, which has been really fascinating, you know, starting out in the music industry and media and then ending up later working for Spotify.

Pete:
So I think you're going to get a lot out of today's episode. It was a lot of fun and it was a great conversation. Before we get into it, though, I'd love to bring on more professionals from migrant backgrounds onto the podcast to talk about their journeys to Australia, how they found work in different industries, and what it's been like building a life here. Many of you are going through that yourselves or thinking about making the move.

Pete:
And so I reckon that hearing other people's experiences, their challenges, opportunities and what they've learned along the way could be really useful. So if you'd like to come on the podcast and share your story, or if you know someone who'd make a great guest, please get in touch, you know, send me a message on Aussie English's Instagram page that's @AussieEnglish_, or you can email me at [email protected]. So [email protected]. Anyway, without any further ado, let's get into my chat with Prithi.

Pete:
G'day, guys, and welcome to this episode of Aussie English. Today I'm chatting with Prithi Dey, who is head of Podcast Australia New Zealand at Spotify. Prithi grew up in London, came to Australia on a round the world trip and ended up making Sydney her home. Today we're going to chat about her journey, what it was like growing up with Indian migrant parents in the UK, and what she's learned about building a career and finding her place in Australia. So Prithi, welcome to Aussie English. It's good to have you here.

Prithi:
It's great to be here, Pete. Very excited to chat.

Pete:
So I thought we could start with what brought you here, not to the podcast today, but to Australia. So take us back to life in London. What were you doing at the time and what made you decide to sort of head off around the world?

Prithi:
Yeah, it was, I mean, I love London, I'll just say that up front, but I think at the time when I was living there, I was in my late 20s, I was working in the music industry. And for anyone that has grown up in London, it's a hard place to live and work. I was living in southwest London. I was working in northwest London. I'd spend an hour and a half commuting each way. The work itself was challenging. I love London very much, but I think I just got to a point where I went, I need a break. I need a break from this, this routine. I need to take some time out and go travelling. I need to re-evaluate what I want to do with my life. And that's why I quit my job and booked around the world ticket.

Pete:
So what were you, what were you sort of hoping to get out of the trip at the time? And where were you going? Or was it unknown? You just left. Let's just begin and I'll go somewhere.

Prithi:
Well, I always thought I'd come back to London, so there was always the intention of coming back. And it was a 12 month trip, and it was literally around the world. So it started in the US, then New Zealand, which was amazing. Then to Australia, then it was going to be Southeast Asia, but I didn't leave Australia and I came to Sydney. The plan was to spend some time on a working holiday visa like so many, so many expats do, spend some time in Australia and then move on to the rest of the trip and then head back to London. So I still had my car. I still had my all my stuff in London. Never intended to stay in Australia, but after six months here and with, with an ex boyfriend at the time who got sponsored in his job, we just decided that we would, we would stay for a little bit longer because we were just loving being here. We were loving, obviously the weather. I think everyone says that, but the work life balance was great and it just felt like a good opportunity to, to stay a little bit longer and see, see what it was like to really live here.

Pete:
What were you expecting? So like, I like, I've got a lot of British friends and family that live over there and everything, and it's always interesting to sort of get their view of what they expected Australia would be like. Before coming, did you have expectations or were you just sort of like, no, I'll just, you know, see what what it is for what it is?

Prithi:
Yeah, I, I think expectation wise, I mean, obviously the beaches. The, the weather and the landscape, the coastal towns and so on. So I think in terms of, in, in terms of expectations, I was thinking a lot about looking forward to seeing some of the coast and, and some of the, some, some really, you know, cool, like going to Uluru and, and visiting some cities. But I think what actually really impressed me when I got to Australia. And the reason, one of the reasons I stayed, I loved the ocean, I, I grew up in London, but I love the ocean. And just travelling up the coast, leaving the cities, actually going to some of those more remote places. It just blew me away how beautiful the country was and how, how it just made me feel like a different person. So I didn't really have big expectations when I came here. I thought it'd be quite an easy place to, to settle into for a short time because obviously the language barrier and the culture is, is quite similar to the UK. But what really took my breath away was the, the ocean, the beaches, the the climate, the the relaxed vibe. A lot of the people I met who were just awesome. It just really kind of aligned with my values at the time in terms of what life should feel like going into that kind of stage of life, if that makes sense.

Pete:
Was there a single moment that you had where you were just like, oh, I'm gonna live in here...

Prithi:
Yeah. Like, yeah, there was.

Pete:
Something you were thinking.

Prithi:
Yeah, there was actually a moment. I, getting personal now, I broke up with the boyfriend. I planned to go back to London. And because I thought I was going to go back to London and not come back to Australia, I had a bit of a farewell tour, and I booked a trip up the coast to Cairns. And as I was going up there, I was thinking, oh my God, what am I doing? This place is amazing. Like all these, all these towns, all these beaches, the people and the landscape, the nature, the animals. I was like, what am I doing? This place is incredible. And then came back from that. And then I did, a really simple walk actually from Manly to the Spit Bridge. And, and I think it was, I remember saying to my friend at the time, Sydney's cool, why am I leaving? Not just Sydney, but Australia, why am I leaving to, you know, go back to London where I like fled essentially. But I did go back to London for six months, but then I came back because I, I really liked it here and I was missing, missing the place so much. So yeah.

Pete:
How did your friends and family react? Were they just like, ah, she'll be back, you know?

Prithi:
Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
And I think for ten years after I came back to Australia after that break, I was still had one foot in London where I was like, yeah, this is only temporary. I'm only going to be here for a bit. I'll go back to London eventually. And then after ten years I went, no, I'm probably Yeah, I like it here. This. I've got a life now.

Pete:
I've got so many British friends who live here and there's 50/50, those who kind of have one foot in one place and one in the other and just chase summer. And then there's the others that are like, I am never going home. Like, so did you find yourself in that later? Like you quickly moved towards the whole, this is just home. I'm not, I'm not doing the whole backwards and forwards on a regular basis thing.

Prithi:
Yeah, I think it took me about 15 years to get to that point and.

Pete:
Gotcha.

Prithi:
And, and at that point, I'd also moved my mum over to Sydney.

Pete:
Oh, wow. Okay.

Prithi:
Yeah. So it definitely felt more like home when she was here.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I'd bought a property, I'd got a cat, I got married, you know.

Pete:
Once, once you get a cat, it's serious. That's when you know. I mean for the long run. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah, yeah. I've got like my fur family here now. I've got my family here. It's not that easy to leave. And yeah, I do generally feel like, I'm. I've got a good life here. Like I, I feel really grateful. I, I live near the beach. I never take it for granted. I've been here for so long, but I never take it for granted. When I go for walks or runs or swims in the ocean, it's just it always I have to pinch myself and just go, wow, how lucky am I? And I send pictures to my friends in the UK and they're like, Mmm, yeah.

Pete:
Do you feel like we take it for granted? Because I, I get that view working with a lot of migrants and, you know, every single day, it seems like they appreciate what I have and they have much more than I probably do. And other Australians were born and raised here do.

Prithi:
Yeah. That's interesting. I think most of my Australian friends do really don't take it for granted. They appreciate the fact that they live in an amazing place and they can get to the beach really easily and so on. But I think the reason I in particular will never take it for granted is because I grew up in London and like where I live now is so far removed from London. There's obviously things I miss about London that Australia doesn't have. But at, at my stage in life, what really what's really important to me is being able to go for a swim whenever I feel like it, go for a run when I feel like it. Like, work is obviously busy, but work-life balance just does seem like it's very important and always felt like it was important to people in Australia. And I think, um...

Pete:
I've heard that again and again. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah. So we're, we're busy and we're obviously at Spotify. It's, it can, we can be working 24 hours because it's a global company, but boundaries are important and, and workplaces do seem to respect that, which I think is, is amazing.

Pete:
So what do you think your life would have been like if you'd stayed in England, stayed in London? What would the Prithi today be if she was, would she be the same sort of, you know, happy, easygoing sort of person? Or do you think you would have a completely different personality and, and sort of outlook and everything?

Prithi:
I think I think different for sure. Yeah. I think, yeah, that's an interesting question. I think it's not just living in Australia that has made me who I am right now. I think obviously there's life things that have happened during my time in Australia. So I think it's a combination of both, but I think, I do honestly think that being here, having access to the ocean, having access to the nature has really helped me to manage some of the life things that have come up in the last ten years or so. And I really do have this appreciation for my surroundings and my environment. And I think if I had stayed in London, like when I before I left London to come here, I was pretty angry and, quite intense and um.

Pete:
At London, or just in general?

Prithi:
No, in general, in general, just very intense. Very, yeah, probably had a bit of a dark cloud following me around. I think a lot of people who live in London do, to be honest.

Pete:
Is that, is that London specific or is that just Great Britain climate wise? Like, is it though? Is it the work-life balance and everything that's happening in London that's kind of unique? Or is it the, the whole British kind of, location, climate-wise?

Prithi:
I think it could be a bit of both. Like I, I do genuinely love London. London will always be my home and my heart when I get to London, my heart feels full because it's where I grew up. But it is a really hard place to live at times and it can be a real grind. The public transport, the trains, commuting, the Tube. Unless you're living in central London, you've got good access to transport. It can be really challenging. Work is hard. The weather obviously can get you down. And it's quite built up, you know, so you don't have as much nature. You can't just walk down to the beach. You can't just and I'm very lucky. I'm so grateful for the location I live in. I know a lot of places in Australia or in Sydney. You can't just walk down to the beach. But where I am, and that's why I'll never take it for granted. But London is is so built up and it's just so full on. And I noticed that when I go back to London now, I'm like, it's a bit of a shock and it takes me a good couple of days to get back into it. But I'll always love it. But yeah, if I'd stayed there, I think I would be, wouldn't be as relaxed and chilled and maybe wouldn't have the same kind of outlook on life and optimism that I do now.

Pete:
Yeah. So tell us a bit about your parents story, your, their migration story.

Prithi:
Yeah! So my dad actually was living in London. And he had migrated over there to work as an engineer and my mum was living in India, but she, they had an arranged marriage, they, they chose each other. It wasn't, it wasn't like a blind arranged marriage. But she...

Pete:
How does that, how does that work though? So it was arranged. But they chose like, how does that work?

Prithi:
So they were introduced to each other, but they, they.

Pete:
And they got the final. Okay.

Prithi:
Exactly. Yeah. They don't, they don't just see each other on the wedding day. They, they got to meet each other and, and decide if they want to get married. But my mom was very determined that she wanted to live in London. So my dad immediately ticks, ticked that massive box for her. So, I hope that wasn't the only reason she married him. But anyway, they got married. She moved to London to be with my dad, and that was in the 70s, so.

Pete:
Okay.

Prithi:
Yeah, a really interesting time, I can imagine, to be an immigrant moving to London in the 70s.

Pete:
Was that hard or easier, do you think?

Prithi:
Well, it's it's interesting because I do talk to her about that. And I've I've said to her like, did you experience racism? Like, what did you where did you wear saris? What did people look at you funny? And she said that it was the best days of her life and that if she had experienced racism, she probably wouldn't even have realised, which I, I find really interesting. But she loved it. She said she was so happy. Even though she left India for the first time, left her family behind. She, she loved it.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
They loved it. Yeah.

Pete:
Yeah. Far out. Yeah. It's always an interesting one thinking about that. Like, because I get a lot of people, obviously, I, I get a lot of comments on YouTube videos and podcasts and stuff. And a lot of the time there's both sides. You'll get the people who are like, I love this country. It's amazing. Never experienced any racism. It's brilliant. And then other people who will be like, this is the most racist country in the world. It's awful, it's terrible. And you're sort of like, there's probably obviously it's somewhere in the middle. Hopefully closer to the side of, of not being too racist, but it is always interesting thinking about those things. And like, if it were truly that bad, why do people keep coming here? Surely the word would get out pretty quickly, right?

Prithi:
Yeah, exactly. But no, they, they seem to have had a great life living in London. They bought a place in south west London which became my home and I grew up there, but I do love asking my mum about what it was like in the 70s. And she said that they lived in a- well they, I think the first place I lived in was like a, not a share house, but they had, they were renting a room in a house and if they wanted to phone anyone, they'd have to leave the room and use a payphone thing in the hallway. And...

Pete:
Wow, okay!

Prithi:
I just have those visions. And she used to wear saris to work and she worked in the bank and, and people loved it. Apparently people loved her saris. And they travelled a lot in Europe, because obviously they were in London, and people loved to see her saris and loved taking photos and so on. So it sounds like they were very accepted or they just got lucky or they found the right community, but they, they had a great time in London in the 70s and 80s when they, not long after they arrived.

Pete:
Yeah. So what was it like growing up with migrant parents being, being Indian, of Indian heritage in the UK?

Prithi:
It was, it was normal, I think. Like, I think there's such a large population of immigrants in London, you don't really think anything about it.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I think what was interesting in where I live there, there were a lot of Indian families. My parents were not super strict on learning the language, going...

Pete:
You mean their language? Obviously?

Prithi:
Their language, yes. Yeah. So they spoke English at home.

Pete:
Oh wow. Okay.

Prithi:
We didn't go to religious things as much as maybe other families did. We'd go to something once a year, which was like the annual thing that we had to go to.

Pete:
Yeah. And these would have been Hindu things or...?

Prithi:
Hindu, yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was kind of it felt normal. I don't think I realised until I probably started getting a little bit older. And when I say older, I mean like 12, 13. I had a lot of English friends and I started realising that there were cultural differences in terms of what they were allowed to do versus what I was allowed to do. And that's when it started becoming a little bit difficult for me, where I was like, well, my friends are doing this and why can't I do that? And it's like, well, you're not allowed to do that or you shouldn't be doing that. So that's when I started probably feeling a little bit torn between, well, what, who am I? What's my identity? Am I British? Am I Indian? Like, where do I, where do I want to be like? And, and that was probably really challenging. Yeah. Going into my teens with those feelings.

Pete:
So what, what were the biggest cultural differences that you noticed? Was it around dating? Was it around like, drinking alcohol? What sort of, what sort of things did you experience where you were just like, God damn it, I just want to do that like everyone else.

Prithi:
Yeah, all of that! I think the first probably big thing was wanting to go to the pub.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
Being 16, I mean, yes, the legal age, I think at that point was 18. But you know, all my friends were going to the pub.

Pete:
We're just hanging out. Nothing's happening!

Prithi:
Yeah, we were just, it was just a place to go to. And all my friends were going from school or college at the time, and I wasn't allowed to go to the pub. And so there were a lot of big arguments about that, where I'd end up going anyway. And then coming home with my friends. And then the next thing was probably going to, going to gigs, going to concerts. We had to lie and say there was a parent with us, but there wasn't. So when I went to my first concert, which was Guns N Roses, Wembley Stadium when I was 16, had to lie and say there was a parent. Obviously there wasn't a parent when that, when I was found out, I got into a lot of trouble for that.

Pete:
So I feel like there's probably a lot of migrants who have young kids in their teenage years listening to this. What advice do you think you would give them? Is it the kind of thing where you would suggest that they kind of push back against allowing their kids to do those sorts of things? Or is it worse to do that? And just, you kind of have to make a deal with the devil and decide on what, you know, have those, those conversations, but your kids are going to do what they're going to do, right?

Prithi:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think it's probably best to deal with, make a deal with the devil and just accept that your kids are going to do that. Because what happened with me is I just ended up doing the things anyway and lying about it, to be completely honest. And, and I think, and that's kind of sad, obviously. But I think it's, I think when you're, when the kids are growing up in a country and, and a culture and an environment that is so different to the country and the culture that they grew up in, they have to accept that the kids are not going to grow up in the same way. There's going to be different opportunities open to them, and they're going to want to take advantage of that and making sure that they're doing that in a responsible way, and that they're keeping you informed as a parent and that you know where they are and what they're doing and that they're safe.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I think that is, if I was a parent in, in that world, I think that's definitely what I would teach my kids, but I think it was a real challenge for my mom in particular because so different culturally.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I still say, now, we're like from different planets. Literally.

Pete:
It is weird because I can't. It's hard for me to imagine the the equivalent thing happening because I don't know, I would imagine it would be like me moving, I guess, to, to India or the Middle East somewhere and having a very different political system or religious system that's there. And your kids decide to adopt that and you have to somehow grapple with, I guess in my case, it'd be like my kids becoming more conservative and me being like, you should just go to concerts and drink alcohol and go see girls like and be like, nah, dad, nah, we can't do that. So yeah, it is. I, I imagine that that's a very difficult thing that a lot of migrants have to overcome.

Prithi:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I did, I had a lot of friends who were English, so I was generally wanting to do what they were doing because they were my friends. But I also had a lot of Indian friends who had a lot of Indian friends. So they very much stayed in that community.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
And they were doing different things, but I wasn't interested in what they were doing. I was interested in what my other friends were doing, which meant that I was rebelling against my family somewhat. And I think it got to when I was at university where my mum actually just went, I actually need to let her go.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
Let her do what she needs to do because otherwise I'm going to lose her. And I think at that same point, I also realised that I was being not very nice to my mum, and I had to be a little bit better at communicating.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
But it's a shame it took that long. It could have started much earlier when I was younger.

Pete:
Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting. I can't imagine going through that. So what did it feel like you said you moved your mum to Australia. You've come to Australia obviously as well. So your mum's effectively like a double migrant. Has she, has she- was it like starting from scratch again when she got to Australia or...?

Prithi:
It kind of was. Yeah.

Pete:
Yeah. Okay.

Prithi:
Yeah. So I'm, I'm really lucky that I was able to do that. I'm an only child and she's my only living parent. So I was able to get her here on the parent visa. And yeah, even though she'd been here multiple times to visit me, it was like starting again because we had to set up her bank accounts. We had to find the doctor, she had to get around. We had to get her an opal card so she could get on the bus, and...

Pete:
How old was she when she came out, if I can ask?

Prithi:
She would have been in her late 70s so...

Pete:
Okay, so like a retired age kind of thing. So you, yeah, you, you are really kind of like having to do all this from scratch. And she's not. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah. It was, it was hard. It was really hard. And it still is quite hard actually, because she, she now has dementia.

Pete:
Yeah, sorry.

Prithi:
So I'm, I'm a carer as well. But I'm also so grateful that she can be in the country where I am.

Pete:
Yeah. That would be a nightmare if she was back in England, right. And you were here, with that difference in, in space and time. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah. She was here before Covid happened. So, you know, thank God for that as well, because I probably wouldn't have been able to go back to the UK and vice versa. So I feel really grateful. I mean, it's hard. I can't deny it's hard, but I'm grateful that she's close and that we can keep in touch, and I can be there to help her and support her. And the healthcare system here is so supportive.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
Thank God. So, yeah, she's she, she's well looked after by myself and...

Pete:
What's, what's the healthcare system like in, in England at the moment? I've heard that it's just getting worse and worse because of just, the amount of demand, right. Like that it's just absolutely crazy.

Prithi:
Yeah. I, I'll be honest, I don't really know because I haven't been there for such a long time, but NHS was, always got a bit of a bad rap and...

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I have, yeah, I just hear bad things. So, yeah, it's, I'm glad that she's here.

Pete:
So with, with that getting her on a parent visa to come over. Do you have any tips or advice for people listening who might be considering bringing their parents over on the same, the same visa?

Prithi:
Yeah, I think definitely start planning early. If that's something they're thinking about. There are multiple options. It can be quite expensive. So definitely look into all of the options. There are so many resources available online to help through the process. So definitely do all the research. But if it is something that is being considered, start planning for it. I was lucky that it was easier for us because I am the only child, but I know there's a lot of friends and colleagues that I have over here who have the majority of their siblings overseas, so they can't...

Pete:
Oh, that makes the process a lot harder because again, I know nothing about this. I know what the visa is, but I don't know about how easy or hard it is based on your family conditions. So if you're an only child, is it actually a lot easier to get your parents to come over?

Prithi:
Yeah. At the time, I think it was if the majority of your, your offspring, need to be in that country. So...

Pete:
Yeah, okay.

Prithi:
Because I am an only child and I'm here. It was, it wasn't cheap. It was expensive. So that's something that people should consider as well. So look into all the costs. And the timings and everything, and just do the research.

Pete:
So it's one of those hard things because yeah, I have students in the process of bringing their family over. They're like, it's like 50 to $100,000 or something to bring over 1 or 2 parents. And part of me is like, you know what? It's probably a deal if they're retired and they're going to be using the healthcare system, you know, to be honest. Like, if they're not paying tax into the system, you know, like, I mean, I know it sucks, but at the same time, it's probably a pretty good deal.

Prithi:
Yeah, I mean, it, it was, it definitely was at the time for us. And the other, the alternative was going on a bridging visa and just waiting, which could take ten years. So we went with the quicker, more expensive version which, which worked well. But even that takes time. So I think it's just making sure that if anyone's thinking about it, they, they make sure that they're aware of how long it can take and they start the process when they're ready, but as soon as they can really.

Pete:
So if someone walks up to you guys and they say, where are you from? What do you say? What's the first thing that comes to your mind? You say India, do you say Great Britain? England? Do you say Australia? Sydney?

Prithi:
I, I would never say I'm from India because I'm.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I, I have spent so little time in India compared to like. Even though that's my. I would say I'm from London.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
And I will always say I'm from London. But I live in Australia now and I've got Indian, Indian heritage. That's how I would describe my status I guess.

Pete:
Yeah. And what about your mum? Like if I were to ask her where do you where are you from? How would she feel and think about it like.

Prithi:
She, she, probably spent more of her life in England than she did in India.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
So she would, she would say that she's originally from India, but she came from London.

Pete:
That's it's my wife is from Brazil originally, and I think now she's been in Australia for trying to think maybe getting close to 12 years, 15 years without having ever gone back.

Prithi:
Wow!

Pete:
And I'm always like, where, where do you feel like you belong? And she's like, uh, nowhere.

Prithi:
Oh, yeah.

Pete:
That's, that's dark, you know? But she's like, I, I keep seeing everything back home in Brazil and it just seems like a different place. I see photos of my family and they've aged ten, 15 years. I talk to them, but I don't see them on a daily basis. I see the locations, they look different. There's new shops, there's new trees, there's. And the language is changing. That's another thing that she's like, it's weird. You, you watch TV shows or movies or hear people speaking and they're using different slang terms or different, you know, they're speaking slightly differently after that amount of time. And I'm like, that is weird. Like I really thought about, have you noticed that at all with like Great Britain and England when, when you obviously left? I think, I think from the research I did, it was in the early 2000s, right. So I've been here for more than 20 years.

Prithi:
Yeah.

Pete:
Have you noticed big changes at all or is it you've been going back and forth often enough that you've kind of grown with it?

Prithi:
Yeah. I, there's definitely been change, but I couldn't say what the changes are. When my mum still lived in the UK, I'd go back for big stretches of time, like three weeks. And then I, I, everything felt normal. Like if there were things changing, I was changing with it.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
But when she came over here, I could only go back for a week at a time, if that. Because it's. I had no home and nowhere to stay. And it gets very gets very expensive, but it still felt like home some somewhat. But when I went back the last time, it didn't feel like home in the same way. It felt like a new city. It felt like a different city. And that was the first time I felt slightly displaced, which was the word I used at the time. But I was like, well, this isn't really home anymore because it's, it's all very familiar to look at, but it doesn't feel like home. Like, it just feels different. I don't have my roots anywhere here at the moment. It's a bit strange. And it made me realise that if I did ever go back to London, it would be like essentially going, going to and starting again in a new city that is very familiar with I'm that I'm very familiar with. I still have friends there, which is great. I can still get around easily. I understand how the Tube works and all that, but yeah, I've definitely changed as a person and, and London's definitely changed as a city. And I still love it, but like we're, we've grown apart, I guess you could say.

Pete:
Yeah. And what's your relationship with India and, and the, the language. I assume your parents spoke Bengali, right?

Prithi:
Yeah. They spoke Hindi.

Pete:
Hindi. Okay. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah, yeah. So I didn't grow up speaking Hindi. So when I go to India or when I used to go to India as a child, it was, I couldn't talk to anyone.

Prithi:
Or my family speak English except my grandmother at the time. So I can communicate with her. And to be honest, back then when I was younger, I hated going to India because it was hot and I'd get eaten alive by mosquitoes and I'd always get really sick. And I was like, this is hell. Why am I here?

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
And then my dad passed away when I was 16, and then I didn't go back to India for 20 years.

Pete:
Oh, wow. Okay.

Prithi:
Yeah. So I didn't go for 20 years because I just didn't want to. And then I went over for a month. I, when was that, like, 15 years ago and had the most amazing experience. Still couldn't speak the language obviously.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
But rediscovered a connection, a bond I had with the country that I had probably been suppressing for a very long time and went to Varanasi, which is obviously the, the Mecca for Hindus. And just felt this amazing feeling of, yeah, I belong here. This is where I'm from.

Pete:
Yeah, because that's what I was curious about, right. Like, because I, you can probably tell I'm pretty British from ancestry. Both my parents, they did their DNA tests and I think it was like 100% England, Scotland. But I've never been there. The closest I've been is France. I've been to Paris. That's probably geographically as close as I've been. But I have this drawer like I watch a lot of Time Team and documentaries about the Roman Empire, the Stone age, the Iron Age, and I just I have this like, oh my God, these are my people!

Prithi:
Yes!

Pete:
These are my people. I feel like, did you ever watch men in tights. Robin Hood: Men In Tights.

Prithi:
Yes!

Pete:
When you know, when he gets back to England and he, like, kisses the sand. I feel like I feel like that would be me. I would be like, oh, the motherland.

Prithi:
Yes, yes.

Pete:
But then I have other friends who are equally as like, British. And they're just like, I don't give a shit, dude. Like.

Prithi:
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how you react to being in the country when you eventually do get over there. I'm very curious to know how you feel about it when you land. In your mother- yeah. But yeah, I never that didn't that didn't hit me about India until I went when I was in my like late 30s. And then I suddenly went, wow, this. Yeah, this is my place. This is my where I'm from. This is, this is my heritage. And I'm so proud of it. I love it. And I want to come back and I want to spend more time here and I want to see more of India. And I, I, it was just a feeling I hadn't expected to feel, to be honest.

Pete:
How are you treated by the Indian community in Australia? Because I imagine there are native born Indians or people of Indian desi sort of heritage, right? But they only speak English. And then you've got migrants that are probably the similar age to you or the same age who are actually more recent migrants. Are they these kind of like clicks or differences at all, in how you treated by one group or another, or whether they accept you as you're as Indian as I am? And I'm, as you know, is, does any of that sort of stuff happen behind closed doors or...?

Prithi:
Yeah. Look, it's interesting. I think even when I was growing up in London, I didn't feel like I was part of the Indian clique or community. And I didn't really want to be either, because I felt like it was very clique-y and very closed. And I didn't love that personally. The few Indian friends I had weren't like that. They, they had English friends. They had, you know, friends from different backgrounds. And I was more like that. But I, coming to Australia, I haven't met that many Indian people, but the ones I have met who I've become quite friendly with, are like me. Like they, they have a diverse range of friends. Say their community is is mixed. Yes, they have their traditional family. They have their heritage, they've got their cultures, but in their traditions, but they still get out into the, into the wider community and have a real mixture of experiences and friends. And, and diverse experiences. So yeah, it's, it's interesting. Whereas I do see, especially since my mum has come here, we go to certain areas where there might be the temple or to get Indian food and those areas definitely feel like it's a very closed Indian community.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
And I feel a little bit like a foreigner in those, those places because I don't speak the language. I think they're a bit confused by me as well. Similar to when I go to India because I don't speak the language. A lot of people think I don't look fully Indian either. Like I can mix to there a bit. Like we don't really know what you are, but you know, you seem like you might be Indian, but we don't really know.

Pete:
"What are you? What are you?"

Prithi:
You've got an English accent, so that just makes everything really confusing. So we're not even going to try and engage with you. You know, so. So it's a bit like that. And, and that's fine with me to be honest.

Pete:
Yeah. It's, it's a beautiful thing though, right? Like having that mix, it was always interesting. I had a Sri Lankan girlfriend when I was at university, and it was interesting how she was my window into the kind of Sri Lankan culture, I guess, and sort of closed off community. Her dad was massively racist and just hated white people. And it was really interesting kind of trying to navigate that because I, I would have to call her up and be like, "Uh, it's Pete, um, working on a project, uh, in chemistry class with Tash. Can I speak to her on the phone?" And he'd be like, "No!", and just hang up and she text me and be like, "Just call back in ten minutes", you know?

Prithi:
Oh, God. Yeah.

Pete:
So it's always just really interesting. And then there'd be other people I would meet and they would be like the most loving and welcoming, you know, people who just didn't care about any of that sort of stuff. So.

Prithi:
Yeah.

Pete:
There's such a diversity of these interactions that I.

Prithi:
Totally. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think also growing up in London, my mum worked in, my mum was very diverse in terms, or my mum and dad were very diverse in terms of the people they spent time with and where they worked and so on. So I never really grew up in that close community anyway. But I was very, I was exposed to it. Like when I went to uni, my friends at uni were mostly white.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
It's just how it was there, the people I got on with, but I'd see the closed Indian communities and I'd often get like dirty looks and like weird vibes of like, why are you with them? Why aren't you with us? And, I just, that put me off, to be honest.

Pete:
It was, it's an interesting thing. I remember there was one moment with my, my girlfriend when I was at uni where she was always like, we can't hold hands in public. And I was like, well, like, that's not very, I don't know, that's, that seems pretty conservative to me. And she was like, it's because of the grapevine. They'll know. They'll see. And it did happen. That was how her father found out and was like, furious. Yeah. That like..

Prithi:
A scandal!

Pete:
It was a parent who had picked up their child from Melbourne University who happened to see me and her together holding hands. And then I was just like..

Prithi:
Wow.

Pete:
Oh my God, man. The drama.

Prithi:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Pete:
Did you, did you have a lot of pressure on you to achieve a lot, too? Like you often hear about that thing with, with migrant children, especially from parts of East Asia and, the like, that your parents put a lot of scholarly pressure on you to perform well at school. Was that something you experienced or they were a bit more relaxed?

Prithi:
Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. I think my mum really wanted me to finish uni, like at the very least just finish uni because it got halfway through uni. I was like, I don't know if I can do this. And she's like, you have to finish uni.

Pete:
"It'll be a shame on the family!"

Prithi:
Yeah, "You have to just do that one thing for me. Just finish uni." So I got through uni. So that, that was good. And then I think after that I think expectation, and expectations in terms of careers and jobs was very differing as well. Like she was very much, and I think this is probably the case for a lot of people, that generation, no matter what your background, but, you go into a job and you stay there forever.

Pete:
Ah yeah.

Prithi:
Or not forever, but for a very long time. She was in the civil service for 20 years, maybe longer, maybe.

Pete:
It's funny though, like those were it seems like we now think, God, those were the days you didn't have to retrain every five years for a different job that now in an industry that didn't exist.

Prithi:
Yeah.

Pete:
It feels like, God, I just wanted to be one of those people who sat down and put scissors together, you know, back in the old days and just chatted with my mates, you know?

Prithi:
Yeah. Just like low effort.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
But when I, when I tried to change jobs or when I did change jobs pretty much every year for the first while I was figuring out what my career was going to be, that didn't go down well. "Every year you're changing jobs?"

Pete:
Well, yeah.

Prithi:
So yeah, so that was, that was interesting getting over that. But yeah.

Pete:
So what was the process like when you came to Australia? Getting used to the language here, was that a big learning curve? Even though you're a native speaker of English, there are big differences in, say like slang and vocab that we use here. Was that a process or did you sort of slide straight into it and there was no real issue?

Prithi:
I, I slid into it, but I always thought it was kind of funny. Some of the slang.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
The, the O's like sambo, ambo, everything's got an O at the end. I was like, why, why does everyone's names get shortened to have an O at the end? Like I didn't, I didn't get it, but I was like, sure. But I understood the slang. But even up until recently, I think I, I think it was only a few years ago when I was in Spotify and someone mentioned a shoey and I was like, what the hell is a shoey? Like, what are you talking about?

Pete:
And they make you do one at Spotify or...?

Prithi:
Actually no!

Pete:
Do you want to explain what it is? Yeah.

Prithi:
No they didn't. But I I'd already been here. I would have already been here at least 20 years. I'd never heard what the word shoey. So that, I'm still learning, clearly.

Pete:
What is it? Do you want to explain that for people listening. What, just like a shoe?

Prithi:
And correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's drinking alcohol out of a shoe.

Pete:
Beer. Yeah. You pour a beer into a shoe and it's usually celebratory, right?

Prithi:
Yeah. I don't get it. I still don't get it, but sure.

Pete:
I think it's just because it's gross. It's kind of like, ah, I don't care. I'll do it. The first time I think I heard about it was someone on the podium after the, the F1 or something like that racing. And it was an Australian guy who won it and he just filled his shoe with the, I think either champagne or beer and just drank it on stage and got everyone else to do it. And I was like, what the hell is he doing? And then when I was like, Ehww. I can admit I have never done one and I'm not in a rush.

Prithi:
I've never done one!

Pete:
Maybe with a new shoe?

Prithi:
Yes, maybe. But even still, it's like, why?

Pete:
Yeah, it's probably not going to taste as good as the drink out of the bottle. Or.

Prithi:
I'd say not. And then you ruin a new shoe as well. So.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
That's kind of sad. But, yeah, I think the language it's, yeah, there's definitely some slang, which I, I find quite funny, but I, I haven't adopted it. I still say yoghurt.

Pete:
Yeah, okay.

Prithi:
Still say duvet, I won't say Doona. There are certain things I just, I will always keep close to home, like close to my heart.

Pete:
Have you absorbed any that you kind of like. Do you say "g'day"? Are there any common, "no worries". Any of those sort of. Do you feel like you've absorbed or you've made a sort of active effort not to because.

Prithi:
I've, I've probably made an active effort not to as much.

Pete:
Why?

Prithi:
I don't know, it just I, when I say those things, it sounds weird coming out of my mouth. If I say "g'day", it just sounds weird. Still, I don't know, I've been here so long, but I do say "no worries".

Pete:
Yeah, yeah.

Prithi:
But even that sounds kind of weird. I usually say, "don't worry about it". I still have that English. I don't know.

Pete:
No one's got time for that. It's too long.

Prithi:
Yeah!

Pete:
It is funny. I say that to my most of my students and listeners, like I always encourage them as usually foreign language natives, to adopt all of that stuff because by using it, it kind of bridges this gap between people, you know, like if I, if I have someone who's Chinese and they come up and say, you know, g'day, I'd be like, oh, okay, cool. You get it. You're Australian. All right, I get it. But you're right. There is some weird phenomenon where if someone from Britain or from America get a mate or like, hey, mate, how's it going? You'd be like, are you taking the piss out of me? Are you making fun of me? Like, what are you doing? You know, like.

Prithi:
It just sounds so weird coming out of my mouth. And I think when I say it, I'm like, oh, that just sounds wrong. I'm just not going to do that. Yeah.

Pete:
Yeah. There must be some really interesting kind of like social phenomenons happening there with like, accent and language adoption. Like you almost have to go the full length to adapting your accent to be able to then absorb those things. My aunty, she was born in Australia, but married, a Scottish man who ended up moving to Canada. And they both speak with Canadian accents when they're there. But it's so funny when she comes back to Australia and if her kids are with her, well, they're about my age now. But there was like, mum, why are you speaking like that? Why are you saying that? Why do you what are you doing, mum? And she'll just be speaking like an Australian. And I'll be like, what do you mean? She doesn't speak like this normally. And they're like, no way. You know. So she's she's obviously like just switching between the two.

Prithi:
Yeah. That's funny. When I go back to the UK, a lot of people think I sound Australian. In fact, a lot of Australians think I sound Australian. But then there's a lot of Australians that like I speak to and they're immediately like, when I first spoke to you, immediately you're like, oh, you're from the UK. It's like, yeah.

Pete:
You know what it is? It's when you say something like "water", you do that and it's instant because there's not many other accents, if any, that really use that. It's called a glottal stop, right, where you turn the T into an H and that's that "bottle of water" thing.

Prithi:
Oh yeah, I just...

Pete:
They get that instantly.

Prithi:
I can't yeah, it's very rare that I'll say water. Like it's just, even that, that same water is like saying g'day. It just sounds weird.

Pete:
It's like we have royalty in front of us. Look, it's the queen. Yeah. Got you. Okay, so tell us a bit about your career, history-wise. How did you get started? How did you end up at Spotify? What's the short of it?

Prithi:
Yeah. Well, when I came to us, when I came back to Australia, after my six month stint in the UK, I really wanted to get back into the music industry because that was always my passion. And I was very lucky to get a job at Universal Music and very lucky to get sponsored for permanent residency when I was at Universal. So I had this amazing experience living the dream in Sydney, working for a major record label, going to a million gigs, all of that kind of stuff. It was, it was so such a great way to kind of launch my career in Australia. I met so many people there who are friends now, and.

Pete:
Does that stem back from when you went to Guns N Roses as a 16 year old?

Prithi:
Oh yeah, definitely. But I think in terms of, you know, the industry here is significantly smaller than the UK. And a lot of people I met at Universal, I still know and moved on to work at Spotify and different places. So I'm still connected to a lot of people I met during that time. But then I got to a point where I was like, I love music so much. I don't think I want to work in music anymore. And I moved into media, but I was again, still in music. I was, it was a music publishing, network. Well, not a music publishing network, a net- a media network that worked with labels and published content about music. And so I got to work with all the labels that time, not just the label I worked for, plus festivals, plus touring. So I again had a wonderful time going to all the gigs and literally all the gigs, all the festivals. But that got quite tiring obviously. But I stayed in media, went on to work for Sound Alliance, which then became Junkee media. And then landed at the Guardian, which was my dream job at the time because I, you know, British love the Guardian, was so excited to, to work there. So I had an amazing four years at the Guardian. But yeah, I'd spent a fair bit of time in media up until then and, and a lot of it on the commercial side, which is I never really felt like that was me completely. And then the Spotify was always an organisation, which I just loved. You know, oh, here's my ....

Pete:
I shut my door so my cat wouldn't come in. I love it.

Prithi:
I shut my door too, but he opened it!

Pete:
They're clever, they're clever.

Prithi:
I hope you don't mind my.

Pete:
No, not at all, man. I'm a massive cat person, I love it. What's his name?

Prithi:
His name's Oscar.

Pete:
Aww, for those who can't see, he's a ginger, ginger tabby cat.

Prithi:
Beautiful little ginger. Needy ginger. Very, very cute.

Pete:
Yeah, amazing.

Prithi:
But yeah, so when Spotify launched in Australia, a lot of my friends from a lot of people I knew from Universal, actually were founding members of the Australian office in Sydney. At the time it was very music focussed. Obviously, music is the, is the foundation of Spotify's DNA. But then the podcast arm was launching and the, the job came up and I, I just thought that just sounds like a really exciting opportunity to go into this tech company that I've always admired from afar, that I use obviously, and be one of the founding members of the podcast world, at Spotify and tech...

Pete:
Were you listening to loads of podcasts? Were you one of those people who, who like had adopted that technology early on and then, you know, wanted to get into it or you sort of did later on after getting into that job?

Prithi:
I wasn't massively obsessed with podcasts. I did listen to podcasts. But, I think what I loved about the opportunity was the storytelling. The content, the working with the creators and the podcasters and, and doing something very different to anything I'd ever done working for a tech company that was a behemoth and global and just doing really awesome things. So I was really excited by that opportunity. And seven and a bit years later, here I am still. My mom's so pleased, you know, stayed in a company for seven years. So happy!

Pete:
You just have another 13 to go, right?

Prithi:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, great. You know, she's finally, she's stable in a job. Somewhat, you know, so, um, yeah, so and during that seven and a half years- or not seven and a half, but just over seven years, it's been such an interesting journey. Like the podcasting journey itself has been interesting. It's changing constantly. It's still changing and continues to change. It always will.

Pete:
I wanna ask you that. How do you feel like it's changed since you joined or since, you know, you first got into podcasting and hearing about it and using them?

Prithi:
Yeah. How has it changed? Well, I mean, Spotify's strategy just has changed so much when I first joined. Because Spotify was very much at the beginning of the podcast journey, it was a lot about acquisitions. So Anchor, Gimlet, they'd all that had just recently happened. Joe Rogan had just come on to platform. We were very much pushing the exclusive strategy. We were trying to basically grow in a, in a very competitive space, you know, with the challenger brand, it felt like at the time. So we had to be quite aggressive in terms of the strategy, but it worked like we're, we're the biggest podcast platform in Australia now. When I joined, a lot of people I spoke to didn't even know you could get your podcast on Spotify. So.

Pete:
Yeah, that happened quickly. I remember having friends tell me, oh, you can go on Spotify now. And I was like, wait, what? Like.

Prithi:
Yeah.

Pete:
And now it's like, well, of course. Yeah.

Prithi:
Yeah. Yeah, which is, which is awesome. And that's all happened while I've been at Spotify. And then in terms of how things continue to change, we're very much, I feel like at the moment we're in a period of, how do I call it. Growth? But also evolution, the way content is distributed, the way it's consumed, the way it's measured, it's, it's really changing and evolving at such a rapid pace. It's, it's so exciting the way the industry is working together. I love it. It's, it's.

Pete:
Do you feel like AI, like when I first came on the scene a few years ago, I was like, oh, my job's gone. You know, people are just going to create with AI. But then pretty quickly I realised people don't want to listen to AI. They may be okay with scripts or inserts and bits and pieces, but ultimately they want that relationship with another human being at the other side actually speaking. So do you. Were you freaking out when AI first started getting into that content creation sort of realm, or you were like, yeah, it's going to be a flash in the pan. You know, like Eleven Labs is not going to take over.

Prithi:
I don't know if it'll be a flash in the pan. And I think we'll be interesting to see how AI evolves in the content space in general.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
I definitely agree. I think people will always want to hear from their favourite podcasters and their favourite hosts, and AI can't replace that. But I think AI is here to stay. And I think it's just about knowing how and when to use it responsibly.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
So it'll be interesting to see how AI continues to impact the content space.

Pete:
So final sort of question for someone who's migrated to Australia and is, working on their career like you and wanting to get into the sort of similar space, what sort of advice would you have whether for yourself or for them? Getting their foot in the door at somewhere like Spotify.

Prithi:
Well I think, I think just starting from your migrate, the migration journey, like when you come to Australia, Sydney, wherever it is, you end up basing yourself like embrace the, the country, embrace the culture. Get amongst it, understand the slang like say "g'day", just like really understand the history, just really like embrace the place where you are. Make friends outside, make friends and connections outside of your immediate group, like diversify the, the people that you're spending time with and the things that you're doing for starters, too.

Pete:
How do you recommend doing that? Because that's one thing that I hear from people all the time. All my friends are Iranians. I'm Iranian, they all speak Iranian. I don't know how to meet Australians. Do you have specific tips or tricks or ideas for how to do that? Or you just have to literally just get uncomfortable and get out there?

Prithi:
Be uncomfortable, yeah. Get uncomfortable. I met a lot of my Australian friends through work, and also just through friends of friends really. When I first came to Australia, I was, I kind of spent a lot of time with expats.

Pete:
Yeah.

Prithi:
Which was very comforting. But I didn't come to, I didn't want to just be around expats. I wanted to meet people that were from Australia who, you know, lived here and grew up here. And, and that was and, and I was really lucky that I was able to do that through work. So I think, and I did have to force myself to go to a lot of places where I knew one person, for example, and then network and get to know other people. But I think definitely push, push yourself out of your comfort zone, do things that you wouldn't normally do, try and meet different people from different backgrounds and, and embrace being in a new place. So I think that's the first thing that's really important. When you get to a new country, any new country, including Australia. And then in terms of the work. Yeah, it's, I feel like I was quite lucky really. I feel like every opportunity I've had during my time here, the opportunities come up. I've gone for it, I got it, I've worked really hard, I've made really great connections there. And that has often led to the next thing potentially. So I think, yeah, wherever you end up working, just remember it's a small place. Like the industry is small. Be nice, don't burn bridges.

Pete:
Don't make waves.

Prithi:
Don't, don't, yeah. Don't, don't make waves. Don't burn bridges. And, and be respectful of your, of your colleagues and so on. I know that sounds like really basic advice, but when I think about the people I work with at Spotify now and how I got to Spotify. That wouldn't have happened if I'd, hadn't formed good relationships very early in my career in Australia, to be honest. So, yeah, I ended up in a good place and I'm lucky for that.

Pete:
Awesome. Well, Prithi Dey. So, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Prithi:
Thanks for having me. It's been a great chat!

Pete:
Well guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was a really fun conversation with Prithi. Once again, massive thanks to Prithi for coming on and sharing her story.

Pete:
Remember guys, I would love to hear from you, and people that you know with migrant backgrounds about their experiences moving to Australia and working here. So if that's you or someone that you know, please send me a message on Aussie English's Instagram page or email me [email protected]. So [email protected].

Pete:
If you enjoyed this episode, also, please take a moment to leave the podcast, a rating or review wherever you're listening to it. And if you know someone who's thinking about moving to Australia, building a career here, or even just learning the language, please send this episode to them. It really helps more people discover the podcast.

Pete:
Anyway. I'm Pete. Thanks for spending time with me today, mate. I really appreciate it. Take it easy and I'll catch you in the next episode!