1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:13,098 So, what do you think? What do you think of the state of Australian politics nowadays? Has it changed since you were growing up and voting for the first time in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. 2 00:00:13,210 --> 00:00:14,900 Yes I think it has. 3 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:17,630 For better or worse? 4 00:00:18,227 --> 00:00:42,289 For a lot, for a lot worse. I'm rolling my eyes for those of you who are listening to us. I lean fairly heavily to the left of politics, but I don't think there has been a politician in Australia who has had a vision for what the country should be since Paul Keating, Paul Keating was probably the last one. 5 00:00:42,530 --> 00:00:45,979 Well, they seem to have a vision for how to get their party back into power. 6 00:00:46,690 --> 00:01:23,420 I think John Howard, who lasted it as a long time as prime minister in this country, I don't think he had a vision for the country, but at least I think he had a vision for how to run it in a stable manner, but since then it's just been a dog's breakfast of people chopping and changing their minds and I think since John Howard, and maybe probably during that period, there seems to have been a shift from instead of being elected to run the country and make decisions on behalf of 25 million people now, they their job now seems to be just to get re-elected. 7 00:01:23,600 --> 00:02:02,959 And a lot of that is take the opposite position on tasks or on things that are contentious issues in the media, no matter what, no matter what the issue is we need to be the opposite of what the others think so, that we can get those votes. Which seems really irritating, especially when like, for example, I think some of these examples were I remember when Julia Gillard got elected and wanted to bring in a carbon tax and the opposition at the time were constantly saying this is a horrible idea and then videos came out of Tony Abbott saying oh we should bring in a carbon tax when a year earlier...And so they had just taken the opposite position. 8 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:10,847 Yeah. And so there is a lot of that where it's short term and we, unfortunately, only have three year terms of parliament in our Federal Government. 9 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:12,676 Which exacerbates the problem. 10 00:02:13,069 --> 00:02:33,710 It does because it's an old and unfortunately becoming more and more of a problem gag in Australian politics that you if you get elected, you rule for a year then you spend another year breaking the promises that you made in order to get in and then you spend the next year electioneering to get him again. 11 00:02:34,610 --> 00:02:35,618 Making more promises that you're going to break. 12 00:02:36,170 --> 00:02:46,597 So, we really only have one year of of stable parliamentary government and that's that middle year, whereas you know we have a year of lies and a year of breaking the lies and then we start again. 13 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,413 So, it wasn't like that when you were my age? 14 00:02:49,880 --> 00:03:23,679 It wasn't so much and maybe I wasn't just as aware of it, but there certainly seemed to be more people who at the senior end of politics because, you know, when I was younger I probably couldn't have named you more than 10 parliamentarians, but the senior the prime ministers and the people who have the Treasurer and, you know, the sort of you know the leading politicians in the country were much more visionary. They had an idea of where they wanted Australia to be. Now, you can argue with whether you agreed with that or not, but at least you knew where you sat. 15 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,098 That was at least the aim of the game. 16 00:03:25,160 --> 00:04:18,976 At least the aim of the game was to this is what we think Australia is, this is what we stand for as a country. This is what our party and therefore our government stands for and we're trying to achieve, and yes there were still no changes in philosophy from one period to the next when we had Labour Parties in we had significant changes, particularly in socio economic policy when we had Liberal governments in They were much more conservative, if not just in their overall politics, but conservative in terms of making social change legislation. Those sorts of things so, and they went in a sort of reasonably slow cycle for a long time. For the last 15 years we seem to have been in this rapid change where actually nothing changes because everybody is just bouncing around the the controversial issues, trying to win votes instead of having a vision. 17 00:04:19,419 --> 00:04:25,204 Can you name some of those? What are some of the examples? I know the carbon tax and climate change is a massive one. The boat people? 18 00:04:25,560 --> 00:05:16,790 Yeah. Well, yeah. Immigration. You know, there's... If you set the Labour Party and the Liberal National Party down and looked at and got them to fully articulate or even just read their policies on immigration, they're probably not very different. But it doesn't matter which one of them is in power, the opposition blame them for everything that goes wrong when their policy actually isn't much different and so, there's there's very little differentiation on some of those big issues. Climate is probably a little bit different because I think the left side of politics, the Labour Party and the Greens, in particular, are much more around controlling carbon emissions and therefore controlling and trying to reduce coal burning power stations, as an example, trying to introduce more and more electric cars into Australia. 19 00:05:16,791 --> 00:05:20,004 I've seen Labour in talking about that quite a lot recently and being like, we can do this, we can convert almost completely, but we have to start yeah. 20 00:05:20,005 --> 00:05:49,580 And being like we can do this we can convert almost completely but we have to and that's and that's the sort of big aim is to is to try and, within the next 30 years, to to try and significantly reduce carbon emissions from industry and just from general human behaviour like driving cars, as a good example of that. Whereas the Liberal Party are almost climate science deniers, some of them genuinely are. Some of them just generally don't believe it. 21 00:05:50,569 --> 00:05:58,546 Do you think the most part, the reason that's the case is because that a lot of the companies that fund them and support them tend to be mining companies? 22 00:05:58,790 --> 00:06:56,651 Yes, and that was my second point is that I think others, in terms of if you could get them aside and having a beer in the pub on a Friday night with them and talk about climate science, they would probably agree with you in terms of what the science is actually saying, but when they come to speak publicly they're running the party line literally of saying no, no no, no, we don't believe that burning coal to to create electricity is a problem in this country because, firstly, because there are a lot of their money is coming from big mining industries, particularly coal mining industries, and secondly because in a local electorate issues one of the biggest issues in any electorate, particularly rural electorates is employment, and so if you've got a large proportion of people in an area that are that are employed in the coal industry, then it's a knee jerk reaction immediately as soon you say we're going to reduce the amount of coal we're burning, then there's a knee jerk reaction of what all the coal miners going to do? 23 00:06:57,110 --> 00:07:06,055 Well, you can understand that if climate change in the future is this thing that sort of... It's a cloud, right? It's not something tangible they can hold on there but losing their job is something that they can imagine straightway. 24 00:07:06,980 --> 00:08:43,499 I agree, without turning this into a political debate, the counterargument to that is that we're not going to turn off all the coal burning, coal burning power stations in Australia in the next year, two years, 10 years, 20 years. We might over a period of 50 years wind them down. So, we're talking about multigenerational chain in our community here. Very few people are going to lose their jobs immediately because of these decisions. Now there have been some. There was we shut down a power station in the Latrobe Valley in Victoria a few years ago and a few hundred people, in fact probably a few thousand people, lost their jobs, either directly or indirectly, because that happened. That's probably because the federal and the State Government at the time didn't pay attention to that and didn't work out what the alternatives were because it's not like we're just going to shut down coal burning power stations and have no industry to replace them. We're going to have sustainable, environmentally sustainable power whether it be wind power or solar power, hydro power, geothermal power. There are a whole lot of ways that you can create electricity that don't involve burning carbon and and so, theoretically there should be more jobs created than we lose over that same period of time, but what it requires is a 10 to 20 and longer a year vision of the country and where we're going to be going, but nobody gets re-elected now or they don't think they're going to get re-elected on what's going to happen in 20 years, they think they're going to get re-elected on what's going to happen next year. 25 00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:45,236 So, it's a cheaper game to play. 26 00:08:45,237 --> 00:08:53,082 It's a much cheaper game to play, but in the long term, it's a losing one because you either don't go anywhere or you just miss opportunities. 27 00:08:53,131 --> 00:08:55,797 Feels like you're all in a boat now runs paddling in a different direction, right? And you're like, we need to go forward! 28 00:08:56,882 --> 00:08:58,550 Or choosing not to paddle, half of the time. 29 00:08:58,890 --> 00:08:59,699 Yeah. 30 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:21,869 And so, I think that's where I come back to. I think the last person, last prime minister of this country who had a vision was Paul Keating. And whether you agree with what Paul Keating was about or don't, his view of Australia was that we are not part of Britain and Europe, even though the majority of our non-indigenous population had come from there. We are geographically part of Asia. 31 00:09:23,090 --> 00:09:24,090 Oceania, right? 32 00:09:26,280 --> 00:10:05,396 But Asia, our biggest trading partners, outside the United States, are China, Japan and Korea. One of the largest countries in the world population wise is our second or third nearest neighbour, Indonesia. And so he just said we we're part of Asia. And so, he really pushed to have collaborative trade relationships with Asia and for a lot of people that was just anathema. Nobody wanted it, everybody said look, you're crazy. This isn't going to work, but guess what? Australia has one of the most stable economies in the world because of our ability to trade with Asia. 33 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:14,309 And so, on a big part, that's why we rode through 2008's economic crisis, was it?Partly to do with the fact that we had a pretty stable economy with trading locally with Asia. 34 00:10:15,630 --> 00:10:56,429 And because we are a sort of isolated, I think, a lot from the American banking system, which was the real problem And that global financial crisis because a lot of our money, which historically had been invested in the United States and in Europe, and conversely a lot of our investment in Australia was from American and European industries. We have a lot of investment too, our investment in Asia and from Asia. And so, I think that solved it. Now, you could argue hypothetically that if there had been a crash in Japan and or China at that same time, we would have been screwed, but there wasn't! So...